I tried running the horn in my shaman lists. Its not the same, shaman cant use this weapon the same way Pally does. We cant buff our attack or gain lifesteal like pallys.
Even if they nerf paladin, they need to give shaman some love.
Yeah, it’s a 6 mana, 6 damage reach on the turn you play it. Not very impressive.
Shaman is, most likely, in next expansion waiting room already. The card quality just isn’t there, both in power and in fun-factor.
Funny enough shaman (not totem) is probably one of the few classes (I think outcast DH is another) that can actually outswarm paladin early. With Scourge troll, necrolyte, schooling and deathweaver aura a good early game draw can flood with a stronger board than paladin.
But no one experiments with those cards because its shaman.
1 Like
I mean, the devs have said a lot of things, and that pool of devs changes over time. Aren’t they also quoted as saying they balance based on top legend (presumably winrates)? That seems to contradict what you’re saying they said (although I believe you that they said it).
Edit: I’m mixing up design and balance, my bad. Although, you’d hope balance is in mind somewhere in their heads.
That’s also the issue with pure paladin deck design. Enrage warrior or outcast dh reward players for big brain moves and have amazing power level with smart plays. Because their mechanics have depth and requires skill to get tge payoffs.
In pure paladin however you getbthe payoffs immediately after playing the card because it’s a pure deck. Not only it’s limiting on a deck building level but also very branded to use as there are no set ups for the payoffs.
No one experiments with this because it sucks. You need your perfect hand to answer paladin and once you get out of board you’re done. You don’t have broken purators and zero mana 5/5 taunts followed by countess highrolls
It’s same token style like totem shaman but without the 0 mana payoffs like thing from below and gigatotems
Its pretty easy to refill the board actually. You can run hawkstrider and obviously unliving champion. Also cards like pozzik and even lost exarch can be a board refill
You’re coming before the horse here. You’re saying a deck idea sucks before actually testing the deck idea. Shaman flooding the board over and over is definitely not a problem.
Oh I’m sure balance somewhere in their list of priorities, but the point is everything starts with “fun”
Another thing to remember is that cards/expansions are developed like a year in advance.
Horn was designed sometime last year, while today the devs are probably working on the paladin card people will complain about next year.
This means they really can’t predict how the meta will turn out a year from now.
I understand the rest of your comment, but the current devs can’t seem to predict anything (look at half or more of so called “balance” patches). Players even here on the forum seem better able to predict the result of adding new cards, and the result buffing or nerfing cards will have. I do think they’re pretty shabby at it, and could definitely be better. And remember, although initially designed a year or so in advance, there is always the opportunity to look at the meta and feedback and tweak those cards prior to releasing them.
2 Likes
Spooky mage is tier 4 dude. It’s not being kept in check by paladin, it’s being kept in check by the whole meta.
@OP, seems like burn mage is straight tier 3 huh?People were telling it was the best deck in the meta about a week ago.
1 Like
Unfortunately they seem very proud of the current meta so I don’t expect any changes besides Horn, Stheno and another paladin card like Countess or Purator.
They need to make the new paladin weapon not able to hit face. They’ve given other similar weapons the same treatment in the past, such as Fool’s Bane in warrior, which could only hit minions. Paladin doesn’t need more ways of doing face damage, they already have sticky minions, overtuned buffs that give minions divine shield while boosting damage, a minion that neuters any big minion you play, and Baroness. Most decks can’t deal with all of that being part of ONE DECK. And that is the ridiculous part. The sheer amount of synergy found in pure paladin is nuts. Usually “pure” decks have to pay a price for what they do by not having access to stuff like tech cards. Pure paladin has no such price because they really don’t need neutral cards at all. They just spit out hordes of cheap divine shielded minion and put the onus on the opponent to clear their stuff while they just go face face face.
There’s a post several weeks ago from me stating this was what would happen if they didn’t address paladin.
I was told paladin is just a noob killer and that it can’t break 50% at top legend because it’s a noob killer.
My argument was that it wasn’t a noob killer, it’s a killer deck that allows noobs to gain rank because it pilots itself. And that if they nerfed other decks and didn’t address paladin, we’d be sitting in a pure paladin meta.
And wouldn’t you know, I was spot on once again.
I don’t know what it is with paladin, but everyone wants to defend it like it’s not good. Paladin always gets away with this stuff and people ignore it. Can’t ignore it now.
4 Likes
Reddit is absolutely full of fart-sniffers who are still running defense for Paladin. Of course now they’re twisting themselves into knots of cognitive dissonance because VS finally has to acknowledge the Divine Shield-ed elephant in the room.
3 Likes
That’s the stupid thing Schyla, we have people defending the deck like it’s not an overtuned/borderline broke mess. It is godawful to play against precisely because it’s so easy to pilot. Just keep dropping minions, buff them as you can and keep going face. If someone drops a taunt, so what? Divine shield/buff a minion or use a 2 mana minion to clear it and keep going face. Play 0 mana 5/5s on curve, then Baroness on 6 or 7 and your opponent is left there increasingly frustrated at all the stuff you’re putting out every turn. Board clears don’t even work effectively against them much of the time because of all those divine shields. But yeah, people still defend it like paladin is a weak class that can’t win games.
1 Like
Mallenroh does not have a dog in this fight.
The whole game is busted.
What difference does it matter which class is most broken?
Well, I can’t argue that the game isn’t broken. My only gripe is what is causing this, and I don’t believe it is that someone on the team is a paladin lover. I am assuming incompetence until we learn otherwise. If you don’t hold this belief, kindly disregard this message. I don’t want to assume too much.
And while i understand that fun is subjective:
How just slam even more status in the board is supposed to be “more fun” even for who likes to do that?
At this point i more on the line that devs want some decks to be REALLY easy to play but sometimes they overdo it creating a really bad situation.
And i not even talking about the powerlevel(can be fix with nerfs) itself but that there is a design choice that is inerently wrong there.
If they really want to reward have minions alive on the board there are better ways.
Wasn’t Pure Paladin OP before Horn? By OP, I mean like 55% overall winrate, if I remember correctly. My point being that it was already over the top, and then Horn was released, pushing the deck to S tier.
Well…
The problem with paladin pre patch was that it did lack damage from hand.
That made it relegate itself to a deck that while good was just too easy to play around for a high level player lose to.
And in terms of design it was the correct thing to do to make the deck “less boring” but it also broke the deck powerwise.
Ideally they should hit the deckbuilding payoffs and hit they hard so we get some diversity in paladin deckbuilding.