You can’t have a game with 10 different class perfectly balanced. The very nature of each class having DIFFERENTS tools means that you ll never achieve balance. Moba have the same problem, MMORPG too.
Difference is the opposite of balance. balance means each players have the same chance to win, so neither has the advantage. Chess is closest to it because both players have the same options and there is no RNG. Hearthstone has tons of RNG and each class is very polarized and unique by nature, so obviously some are gonna rules and other are gonna bite dust, then its rotate.
Yes, in a ideal world, you could imagine a game so perfectly crafted that control have a decent chance to defend against aggro, and a decent chance to kill control before they OTK you . A game where all archetype had similar chance and playstyle depended only on the taste of the player. But with so many differents card, predictings the number of combinations every three months is just impossible.
I really don’t agree. As a HL hunter, the biggest problem you frequently have is how inconsistent it can be because you only have one-ofs. I often have the tools that I need to deal with a given scenario built into my deck, but I haven’t drawn them yet. And some cards that I only see in half or less of the games I play. It’s very careful about the mana curve, but it’s very often to have a “stuck” turn, or multiple turns in a row, like when you need to play cards dependent on a dragon in your deck (or, in the case of the hammer, in the battlefield), but you have yet to draw a dragon. This is a frequent scenario because of its singleton nature and general lack of card draw… pretty much the only draw it tends to run is Tracking (which can be good, but effectively discards 2 cards as a penalty), Savage Ingenuity (which is Beast specific tutoring), and the Gryphon (which is Rush specific tutoring). All of them have some restrictions on them; it doesn’t run any consistent draw that will work effectively at all phases of the game. I think it’s very strong, but i don’t think oppressively so given its inconsistency. It’s very dependent on proper mulligans and natural draws. Sometimes you get the nuts, sometimes you get the butts.
Each class has its strenght/weakness I agree. But it shouldn’t lead to something like 100% weak against x class or 100% strong against x class. I don’t know the percentages but you get the idea. Why is this happening ? Because the game is not correctly balanced and I insist : CORRECTLY. It doesn’t mean everyone has the same chance to win, It means you shouldn’t struggle against tons of overpowered cards, tons of randomness and unfun mechanics in wild and standard ( Secret mage,Super Saiyan God Druid, Discover,OTK, murlocs, pirates, Alextrasza’s, Ysera,DMH,Mill… ). Just look how overpowered Demon Hunter is : Premium hero power, premium stats minions, premium draw, AOE, weapons… A balanced game equals fun. Constant frustration is not what defines great games. It is possible to make it correctly balanced and fun.
When i read highlander hunter, i thought the complain would have been about the “deadly shot dragon”, the dragon weapon or dragonsbane, maybe even brann who knows. The dormant minion? I would have never guessed it right!
If you think that 65% is the same as 100%, your math is still bad.
There’s currently 7 classes in HS with a winrate of 51%+ (bronze-gold, I have no numbers above that), that’s a pretty good meta and a far cry from Pirat Warrior &Shaman aggro overlord days.
Just tough it out another 10 days, the August meta will prolly look quite different.
Ever since the very beginning of the game, mage is weak to hunter. That’s not due to a failure to balance but to a design philosophy : mage is weak to direct damage, and hunter is good at dealing direct damage
The Felmaw card goes often face which is infuriating. But yeah, let’s just say the whole deck is overpowered and most of what’s inside should be nerfed. This is going to trigger HH players for sure
There will always be mediocre classes and archetypes in the game, that’s just part of the nature of ccgs where cards have widely different effects. Even in a simple game where the cards are limited to 1 mana 1/1 and 2 mana 2/2, there will be strategies that are better than others depending on starting health, hand size, mana generation and draw mechanics. If your options for deck construction are limited it will sometimes mean that your picks are not at the top.
When I first saw the thread my thoughts went “Oh, another ‘Nerf decks/classes that counter my decks so I win more’ thread” and I was apparently not too far off the mark. Nerfs don’t happen so that players with a preference for certain playstyles can win more, nerfs happen when the meta as a whole is in a bad spot (only a few decks with a > 50% winrate) or if some cards warp the meta around them (like Undertaker or Patches the Pirate).
Heck, the recent nerfs already took away some power from Highlander Hunter and Reno Mage with the nerfs to DQA and Dragoncaster.
The game always has to have a hunter meta as thats the beginner face-smorc class that gets newbs buying packs hand over fist, so they can falsely climb ranks and complete with people way beyond them due to the fact their cards are 50% stronger than every other classes.
Dragon Queen nerf is ok but how about Zixor, Dragonbane , Rotnest, Nagrand Slam ? Dragoncaster nerf is a joke. 6 mana to 7 is the same considering the broken effect. Tortollan Pilgrim is still a card you know and it’s basically the same effect unless you lowroll the discover effect.
Just one more thing i’m not complaining about my losing streaks with Priest, Rogue and Druid decks. We already know there’s no place for creativity in Hearthstone. It’s either you netdeck or you don’t even compete and try having fun. That’s sad but true. Is it hard to understand that making some classes weak , making powercreep cards/mechanics is a great way to ruin this game ? For example ,imagine everyone playing Highlander hunter and just that. Where’s the fun ? Let’s make it simple : Correct balance equals fun and less frustration. It is possible to make it right and fair. Hearthstone is a unique card game with its beautiful animations , esthetics, sound design… I’ve never ever seen better. But as Team 5 seems stubborn , things will get worse till the inevitable death of their creation.
Honestly I have never used Nagrand Slam once. I know some HH decks run it, but it’s not appealing to me as a “10 mana random result” turn. I can definitely see it helping if you happen to snag a Kalecgos off of DQA… the few (2?) times I’ve had that happen, I didn’t have any spells in hand to take advantage of it at all. I’ve considered including it just in case I happen to have some form of mana discount, but in general, I just dislike the card.
But in the end, your core argument is that all decks should be created equal, and I think that is completely and utterly wrong. There needs to be a mix of good cards and bad cards, some amount of highrolling and lowrolling, or otherwise the game would be completely formulaic with all cards having no flavor to them and games being utterly boring. That, in my opinion, would be the death of the game. I certainly would have no interest in playing it.
If you don’t have a complete collection, you should not expect that any deck you craft to be on par with the most refined netdecks. Either grind gold or buy packs.
I don’t think that means that netdecks are the only way to play competitively, either; I just think that over time the best deck versions tend to rise to the top of the meta, because not all deck crafters are created equally, either. I very much believe in net decking a base and then tuning it to your play style and encountered matchups.
