This OTK/aggro meta is truly boring

Multiplayer Discussion
21

I do, my implication is that the matchmaking and RNG extends beyond MMR pairing. You can’t skill yourself a better mulligan, only hope the RNG lets you have what you’re looking for.

Knowing what the optimal/perfect hand/start for my opponent is different from watching them get it repeatedly and consistently while I enjoy drawing the worst cards on my mulligan. Too bad I wasn’t skilled enough for RNG to favor my starting hand or mulligan.

Really all I’m arguing for is that things get toned down enough where the game isn’t decided on the mulligan/first draw.

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22

its a card game drawing the cards keeping the right ones on mulligan tends to be a big part of it

learn to mulligan…youll notice you lose often because you didnt keep the right cards

23

Sometimes you mulligan correctly but the hand remains bad for 2 or more rounds. In those cases you still do not have 100% chance to lose, which is the mistake of some posters here if they imply that.

However it raises the chances to lose. While the randomness of this game is a zero sum game in the long term: it’s obnoxious to casual players because they don’t play many games.

24

You dont design a game around casuals. You design it to be fair to the masses.

You can keep spamming your nonsense, but it remains nonsense.

Also, RNG is ONLY a 0-sum game when all results have a 50:50 chance of being a positive or negative result. That is not the case.

25

That’s the dumbest thing I heard today. I understand you though. Your hate is so commanding that you can’t stop typing even when you have no clue about Statistics and Probability.

26

Yes, and when the game continues to stiff you on your mulligan regularly?

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27

RNG can ONLY ever be a 0-sum game if there is an exactly 50/50 split between good RNG results, and bad RNG results.

There are FAR too many variables in HS for RNG to EVER be a 0-sum game.

Maybe you are special, I am sure you are based on your post history, but I am not running an RNG card that only gives me a 50/50 result in my favour.

Like most sensible people, I am running RNG cards that give me 60/40 odds in my favour at a minimum. Therefore, its not a 0-sum game. The odds of my rng cards are in my favour.

28

I play now more solo content than ranked… never believed this could happen… I purchased the missing solo adventures of my collection for gold and started to play them. Dalaran heist is already completed in normal and heroic… now I am on Tombs of Terror heroic part 4. I am just officially sick of ranked. I play 4 matches each day to make some dailies completed. I just feel the game more dead than ever before. About two years before I remember secret rogue was in the same situation. Seems like nothing will be better here anymore. :roll_eyes: This stupid Bob really needed for the game too… last drop for me.

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29

Let me demonstrate to the folks at home how dumb that is with a basic example. Imagine you play a game at home with a friend and the game has in it a die that was 1/6th chance for a side (a typical die). Your friend is a lot better at the game after the die is thrown because the game also includes decisions beyond the die.

Given 1,000 games played between the friend that plays the game better and you: who is going to win the game for a total sum of more games even if there was randomness from the die which was not a 50% chance but an 1/6th?

To say it as kindly as I can: you don’t know the meaning of the phrase “zero sum game”; e.g. games like Hearthstone and Chess have scoring or MMR algorithms like Elo; it’s defined as a scoring system for zero sum games.

30

No one will believe me but I knew exactly this situation will be at the end of this year when I have seen what kind of cards are they planning to release again in PIP… This was what I affraided of exactly. I wish I could be wrong… This developer team has no idea about balance or fair play anymore. Even blind people can see this. I wish I could say only the card rotation is the only hope again… but can’t even say that becuase even after the rotation druid will still have insane resurrection, Unkilliax and mana ramp to cheat them out. So atleast one OP class will stay I think… but DK was always OP too, Shaman, Rogue, Mage. The insane mana cheat (OTK mainly), aggro, unlimited resource generating and the hidden mechanics behind some cards are still killing this game.

31

Jesus,everyone, please, stop spamming “aggro” in your posts about what’s broken

Aggro is the single worst, completely unplayable archetype in the game currently, and there’s only one (questionably) aggro deck on the ladder, which is far from a typical aggro by every possible measure.

Swarm shaman is NOT aggro, and except swarm shaman, which aggro decks do you see?

Just because a tempo/control deck now has an option to play its 10-cost cards on turn 5, that doesn’t suddenly change the definitions of the archetypes. Archetypes are defined by the cards in the deck, in what manner they end the games and by what turn they do it.

And by those measures, swarm shaman is a pure midrange deck, winning on average after 8.0 turns, unlike typical aggro decks which on average win after 6-6.5 turns.

I have played this game since 2014 and always played mostly aggro (sometimes tempo), and a single mana cheat change in the game can’t fool me.

If you’re going to (ab)use the terminology, at least use the proper one.

32

Try playing attack Demon hunter, the deck is capable to do a lot of disgusting stuff, turn 4-5 lethal is quite common with attack dh especially against decks like dungar druid or cycle rogue. Even against control warrior you could still consistently close the game before turn 9.

I am running vs list with ci’cigi instead of going down swinging because I don’t have that card.

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33

Yes, well, that’s definitely a full aggro deck, so if it’s viable, mea culpa.

It’s just, I was never good on DH, and I seldom see any in my ranks, so I just assume it’s unplayable

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34

Why is Altair confusing everyone again? Aggro means just being extremely fast to lethal the face. Roughly speaking all the ~5min decks and lower are very aggro:

e.g. (in order of high speed)
Weapon Rogue
Painlock
Pirate Demon Hunter
Attack DH
Mech Rogue
Draenei Warrior
Pain Priest
Pain Demon Hunter

PS Personally I find most of them obnoxious to play because the faster they are the more sensitive to a bad mulligan + the first 2 turns of the hand,

though their sensitivity to the mulligan depends to some extend to their composition (some of them have more early synergies).

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35

And where is Swarm shaman on your list? And why isn’t it there?

And why are you (again) accusing me of something (in this case, confusing others), when I’m literally just saying that swarm shaman isn’t aggro?

P.S. All this doesn’t mean that I agree with your definition of aggro. The definition is so naive and incorrect that even a preschool child could type a better one.

And the reason is very simple - even a full attrition/control deck can run you down in a minute or two if your mulligan sucked. On that basis, simply the speed of wins can’t be the only reliable indicator. Especially not today, in a meta dominated by scams and mana cheats.

I’m really trying to be logical and brings arguments in here, but if you know me, you know that I know what I’m talking about. I simply have to play a few games on any deck to see if it’s aggro or not, because aggro is literally the only thing I can play (semi)competitively.

There is no, and never will be, a more reliable indicator for aggro, then how an expert aggro player feels about the deck. It’s a playstyle, a mindset, a lifestyle, even - it takes an aggro person to be an aggro player, and that’s me.

36

I listed the 'very aggro" ones of ~5min or less. That shaman has some juice for late game so it’s a ~6min deck.

By the way even my bread and butter aggro paladin is a ~6min deck (probably because of Amitus).

37

Your definition is pure fluff. Your “feels” can mean anything. Just google it instead.

The default definition is what I said.

It’s just fast to lethal.

38

And conclusions like these are why everyone except you sees how bad your logic is.

The very reason why you even get to play Amitus is because the deck isn’t fast enough. Amitus isn’t making it longer → Amitus only gets to be played, because the game is already longer.

No, the reason why Flood pally is (now) a 6-min deck is because its early aggression is in line with the early aggression of a typical meta deck, which makes it mediocre at best (in this meta).

Besides, it was nerfed too many times, directly and indirectly, so it wasn’t a good, pure aggro deck even before the aggro meta died.

39

Can you just google the definition? Your “feels” about what aggro is will never get us anywhere.

The default definition is that it’s just fast to lethal.

And you have a good tool now to get that data.

D0nkey now lists the avg deck duration.

40

I have my own tools, and I know what I’m talking about

Even your list confirmed it, despite how desperately you want to correct my wrongs

Sure thing, champ. I’ll fight you on any venue you wish:

Aggro deck is a Magic: The Gathering term for an aggressive deck that attempts to win the game through persistent, quick damage dealing. Usually these decks will use small, hard-hitting creatures to win the game.

1st of all, swarm shaman doesn’t normally end the game with small, hard-hitting minions, but with one of the two combos they run (minions + bloodlust or weapon + dh’s buff card)

2ndly, the definition is very much worse than mine, and looks at only 2 parameters. I take 3 into account. Nonetheless, even this definition agrees with how I see things, at least in this case.

And lastly, the definition doesn’t even take the speed of the game into account, despite you only looking at that one parameter. You really need to step up your analysis and logic if you wish to correct me.

I don’t like the “small, hard-hitting” part of it, because that would remove a few clear aggro decks from your list, but hey, if you insisit, I’ll allow it. I always felt like painlock was more tempo/midrange, anyway, but for a while it was really a hyper-aggro solution, so I couldn’t persist on that (period of few weeks before the pre-expansion patch when they nerfed the 1 mana summon 3 1/1-s to 2 mana).

Also, if you insist on offending me, you get one back right away:

Nothing will get you anywhere, anyway, not with the way your mind works, so I don’t think my “feels” are the issue here.

It is a great gift to have, to dissociate from reality and step into imagination where you’re the absolute authority on everything. It makes you strong enough to suffer through a lot. But at the end of the day, it’s still just a delusion, so it won’t get you anywhere near being a person you dream to be.

But a few changes in your mindset could.