sTaNDarĎ 
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Citation required.
Higher power level, sure. A disaster??? Yeah, it was NEVER advertised as that.
Too much effort to expect from a small indie company who need the lootbox, sorry - I mean: card packs, income to survive.
You are completely missing the point.
The broken mechanics of the deck is the mana cheating. That is the biggest offender most of the time. The most similar case, or I should say identical one, is the nerf of Naga Sea Witch. Obviously game designers don’t learn from the past mistakes, so here we are again.
Anyway thanks to all inane comments about how wild is a dumpster, a disaster, insignificant. You are surely adding a lot to the conversation.
You’re welcome and that’s because it is.
If I could link to my numerous posts I made before the standard/wild split about how I opposed the split because of wild becoming a dumpster, I would. 
For sure that’s some nice self-absorbtion issue there if you take your own past posts as a citation. Well then, I’m going to give you some insight, even obviously actually, about how you and thousands of people were manipulated to think like that. After that, I’ll just call myself out of this stupid debate.
Blizzard pushed Standard to become the dominant mode for obvious income purposes. While wild players can live off of interest, and only craft a few interesting new cards every expansion, Standard players have to keep up with the meta by buying at least the pre-order (usually being not enough). So while wild is objectively a more interesting, fun, skill-based, diverse mode (if correctly balanced, of course), thousands of easy fooled people go around claiming how standard is superior and wild is a dumpster while actually never have set foot in it.
And for the last time, also this should be obvious, but higher power level doesn’t mean you can throw in any game breaking dynamics. If you have a game mode where “power level” is 5 and another one where it is “10”, you can’t just throw in the second one a “20” level deck. Is it hard to understand or what?
The forum is a 
.
I agree that it feels similar to Naga Warlock (I went up against one that dropped 1 giant on 5, and 4 more on 6 along with the taunt girl) but it’s actually stronger because there’s so much early tempo.
But I don’t think it’s fair to do a nerf to Standard cards even if it refined into the most OP deck in Hearthstone history. That’s why I offered the alternatI’ve of a Wild only ban.
Hypocrit. You defend quest mage, which even post nerf can have similar boards, but “request” a deck capable of the same thing be made obsolete via bans.
I did say that Quest Mage needed to get a nerf.
I am not a hypocrite because there were multiple avenues to nerf Quest Mage without affecting Standard.
This is a very different situation, so I have a different position.
You defend quest mage being able to present similar boards, as soon, post nerf. That hypocrisy mate.
I specifically asked for a nerf to delay the timing of those boards.
And you’re requesting the format be changed when another deck does exactly what quest mage is STILL capable of. That is hypocrisy.
Let me say it again.
There was never any argument about Quest Mage nerfs that would have affected Standard.
So that’s irrelevant to the discussion.
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Let me say it again, quest mage is capable of doing the same thing that pain lock is doing now. You defend mage, while wanting to not just nerf, but completely remove it via a ban system
Textbook example if hypocrisy. If QM is a allowed those big early midgame boards, then so is pain lock.
If it isn’t the Mana cheating it gonna be anything else.
If you gonna fix anything that breaks with raise dead…
That list gonna be pretty long and many cards during next year’s gonna get nerfs.
If they ever go with agressive discard(make your opponent discard)you gonna need to nerf it due to raise dead duplicating it.
If they ever print some powerfull deathrattle for early game you gonna need to nerf it.
If they make half decent small charge minions you gonna need to nerf it.
Like I said before…
Dark glare turns are Simpton because they are too easy to activate and even easier to guarantee you have cards to use said extra mana via raise dead/0 Mana life tap.
And both come from cards that are so above the curve for their cost that shouldn’t exist.
It not matters what you not like from the interation. Raise dead gonna break almost anything you imagine unless you start to print bad cards on purpose.
It’s something that was tested and proved by many people in many different games.
Raised dead nerf is nerf that is made once and done.
Nerf darkglare gonna result in a virtually infinite pile of card nerfs/designs discarded and even then they gonna have to return to nerf raise dead at some point.
Remember raiding party and kingsbane?
Many people said it was broken but people were dumb enough to nerf the lifesteal buff…
4 months later raiding party had to be nerfed anyway for causing the existence of a tier S deck in standard in the form of tempo rogue during RoS expansion.
Ok so I say the problem is a 3 mana card that lets you play 20 mana worth of resources on turn 4, with or without raise dead. You say the problem is a 0 mana spell that gives you 2 random (RANDOM) minions due to comparisons to other games that I’m pretty sure are inappropriate.
I honestly don’t understand such passion for shifting the blame from the obviously broken card. I see you don’t like raise dead, but the random nature of the card doesn’t give it the consistency you want to demonstrate.
And in all of this, raise dead nerf would still affect standard, so what are we even talking about now?
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- The comparison is" appropriate".
The function is basically the same it did at MANY games as MTG as it’s major example.
That to not say that almost all time people ignore stuff that broke other games it ends breaking hearthstone too.
If the fundamental is the same and the card isn’t overcosted or not has some crazy twist the impact is the same.
- Raise dead is even mathematically overpowered even if I ignore all implications of things already discovered about those effects in other games.
The normal health to Mana cost rate used in hearthstone is 3 if you look at the classic cards. So 3 health = 1 Mana.
Card generation in general cost 1 Mana for 1 card. So for this to be considered on par with the most common suicide effects it should take 6 health.
Even if I tolerate it a little more and make it have a edge over evergreen cards it should take atleast 4 health.
That even without consider the implications with it triggering cards for free and the fact that it’s pool is an extremely high quality one that is analogue to card draw(since it’s minions you actually played).
It should both cost 1 and take 4 health.
And to be fair raise dead already create crazy turns in standard and probably gonna break in standard before it rotates.
The card is just too much.
Magic isn’t Hearthstone despite your claims. Even if Raise Dead is an activator to a lot of decks, Darkglare is still more of a problem because it will then allow mana refresh of mana crystals.
Historically, this game (not magic) has had more problems with mana cheat. The enabler here is indeed Darkglare and not Raise Dead. How do we know?
Because even in turns where they don’tplay Raise Dead, Warlocks can still pump 30 mana worth of stats on turn 4-5 through a cycle of low cost self damaging cards.
Just some math:
Each time you hurt yourself you restore 2 Mana cristals…
So to get 30 Mana played at turn 5 you need extra 25 Mana and that means you need to hurt yourself atleast 13 times.
So you’re saying they can play 10 to 15 self damaging cards without die and all of this without raise dead generating more consistently?
I would pay to watch this.
It’s a utterly lie.
Ok, you know, I had sympathy for you when you were saying that a lot of Standard players have a wrong opinion about Wild due to lack of experience, which is fair enough, but this just shows that the same is true about Wild players’ opinion of Standard:
The part about having to buy pre-orders just to keep up is absolutely not true, I have no problem “keeping up” - reaching legend every month - on that F2P account, getting packs with gold and crafting cards with dust.
As for stating an opinion is “objectively” true… I hope I don’t have to explain how that’s wrong.
Back on topic, I do have a few (honest) questions that will make it easier for me to understand the context, as, yes, I don’t play Wild often enough (mostly to play my old favorites):
- for one thing, I still believe that Wild has far more powerful decks due to access to all the cards. In Standard, Pain Warlock has a notable weakness to Aggro/Burst decks as the self damage tends to bring you closer to the lethal threshold. I think Wild must have much faster decks of that kind, how are they faring against Pain Warlock?
- compared to the Standard version, the Wild version seems to have much much less refill (no Hand of Gul’dan), how is the deck resilient to mid game board clears (Plague of Flames, Mass Hysteria, Brawl) and Freezes?
- tied to previous question: how important is Loatheb in the deck? Would the deck be less oppressive if Loatheb wasn’t a thing?
- if Darkglare is an OP card, how come it is a problem only now while it was around for a full expansion?
Help me understand the whole context please.
Edit: also clarify: how does the Warlock get 20 mana, 30 mana according to Thinice, on turn 4-5, describe the play, how much HP does the Warlock lose in the process?
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