I don’t think I’ve ever done that play. Usually I just have a few coins by turn 6 and push to 9 Mana to supernova + one of the spells for hand size.
Then next turn you can go nuts.
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If you’re looking to play any mage at the top of Legend, it seems terrible in today’s stats with barely anything going 50% winrate even. The meta seems to have shifted to the “logical” levels of extremely slow decks like Starship Rogue/Hunter or an Armor Warlock.
There is one obscenely fast(aggro) deck there: Weapon Rogue. But it deserves to be there because it’s the highest skill cap deck (that is fast at the same time) in the game.
I’m having a hard time believing this, this is a deck that is “me go face” at all costs. It’s loaded with silences and clears to make that possible.
There’s a cycle rogue deck in rotation that seems waaay higher skill cap. Might be the best deck in the game atm if played right.
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We’re not running Skyla for that combo, but because it’s a Tourist card and we have to, if we want to be running the Rogue coin package
Skyla is mostly just a dead card in hand, or you can use it to prep a 0-mana Supernova next turn or something
Exactly. I’ve spammed more than 300 games on it, it’s braindead easy.
Although, since I did say this for Attack DH, it’s NOT as braindead as Attack DH.
A bit less. You do have to sometimes control the board early, like when they highroll or when you lowroll and are waiting for buffs.
It’s not. The deck just throws everything at face and wins. It just has to be explicitly targeted in deck building in order to not die to it by turn 5 or 6.
It’s the reason glacial shards pop up in everything at top legend.
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Look at all the top players being insulted that it was implied a deck needs skill. Well it needs more skill than the other very fast decks. Maybe you are amazing and you don’t see skill levels because they are beneath you or maybe you don’t play it as well as you think.
Calculating lethal for the deck is 2 or 3 levels more complex than other fast decks. Not only it depends on cards generated at the same turn but one can start calculating the lethal or potential lethal two or three rounds earlier.
You don’t need to calculate lethal in weapon rogue. It’s actually one of the least engaging fast decks I’ve ever played.
You just hope they don’t put a ton of taunts and freezes in your way, that’s literally the only interaction the deck worries about.
Otherwise you are just throwing all the damage you get at face, and you will kill them before they kill you. The game is done by turn 5, and you requeue.
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Then it’s confirmed you don’t play it optimally. Not every opponent will have taunts or speed. There are tradeoffs and choices.
There is a reason it’s the main fast deck on top legend. Blizzard nerfs fast decks the low skilled players play well.
The reason it’s a top deck in legend is because it hard farms stuff like cycle rogue which is spiking hard.
It disappears whenever anyone slightly targets it because it just scams wins against decks without defenses to it. It’s incapable of playing around anything that’s targeting it.
It isn’t a high skill cap deck, and it loses win rate as you climb. Whenever it appears in noticeable numbers, glacial shards show up and then the deck goes away again.
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Apples and oranges / you moved the goalposts. Being easy to counter does not mean it’s easy to play.
It’s like saying cycle rogue is easy because it can be countered.
Weapon rogue is both easy to counter and easy to play. Yes, it has decision making to it, every deck does. Overall it’s an extremely linear deck. It isn’t meant to try to do flexible plays, or work around what the opponent is doing. It’s designed to be the thing you have to answer.
Cycle rogue has a much higher skill cap, although the current version less than the last one.
Weapon rogue is one of the least skill intensive fast decks I’ve seen in recent memory because of how little it cares about what the opponents are doing.
You thought in the previous post that dropping in win rate on higher ranks is relevant. Everything drops win rate on higher ranks. But if it drops less than others then it indicates it’s higher skill cap.
The Devs first nerf the lowest skill cap decks that are overtuned because they show behavior of ~70% win rate on low ranks even if they have a sudden drop to <60% on high ranks.
You repeat yourself on the second reply.
It is. It’s one of the ways you can see if a deck gains wins when being played better. If a deck wins a matchup less when both players are better, that means that having skill is less useful for the deck. Of course there are other things impacting this than just skill cap, which is why I disagree with VS calling it the “skill differential,” but that’s one of the major factors.
Weapon rogue gets worse as you climb.
Cycle rogue gets better.
Sure, you can look at two decks and see which loses less as you climb and correlate that to skill, but that doesn’t help you get an absolute value of how skill testing a deck is to pilot.
Weapon rogue is an extremely one dimensional deck. There is very little variation on it’s play pattern from game to game. The wins aren’t even particularly difficult to find most of the time. You don’t need to be a particularly good player to climb with weapon rogue in a favorable meta like this.
Sorry but no.
High legend players are literally addict to stuff that loses to weapon rogue.
The deck is Just a tech for the meta and that IS it.
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Is that a guess? Today with 300 samples weapon rogue is near 60% on top 1K and cycle is near 50%.
On top diamond weapon is worse than cycle because I’m sure they can’t count as well.
They are not stupid. They are addicted to winning. Occam’s razor: weapon rogue is not as easy to play as everyone insists in forums.
Nah, just pulled up the meta page on hsguru from d-l and top 1k. Didn’t filter it further.
Weapon rogue 54.7 → 53.8, loss of 1.1
Cycle rogue 52.7 → 53.9, gain of 1.2
Filtering it to the last day looks more favorable for weapon rogue, But that’s because it’s a hard counter to cycle rogue, which is 25% of the top 1k matchups in the last 24 hours, so that’s skewed pretty heavily. The numbers are not going to stabilize there.
It really is.
When you Win you without anything your opponent can do and when you lose It is the same.
That because of how weapons work.
You’re so limited that there isn’t a different route. A literal bot could play that deck.
None of us are amazing. We just know what we’re talking about. The deck is objectively easy to play, and you should turn your brain off and give it a try instead of writing nonsense on the forum.
It’s in the middle, when it comes to difficulty of calculating lethal. You can’t possibly put it in the same category with decks like InsanityLock and Sludgelock, both of which I knew so deeply that it took me seconds to spot a very complicated lethal.
At the end of the day, how hard something is, depends on how much practice you have with that or similar problems.
Alright, let’s not exaggarate now. Turn 5 lethal is barely possible, considering that your normal opening means you’re not doing any dmg pre-3, when you do 3 dmg, which together with 1 dmg from previous turn makes up 4 dmg.
You don’t do 26 dmg in 2 turns. It’s almost impossible (it’s possible with a bit of help from your opponent, ig). The deck’s average turns per win is >6.
Can’t say I’ve had issues beating 1 or 2 crazy ice shards being played. Like, ever. The only freeze I’m having trouble against is DK’s weapon one, because it’s a reliable 3-turn freeze.
1-turn freezes don’t tend to screw you up, especially since it costs them tempo and mana to do that. You can always just use your turn to control the board, buff weapon or draw cards.
Facts.
No, not everything. Some things go up in winrate in higher ranks. Not to mention that the total winrate ALSO goes up, due to the paradox I talked about in the other thread of mine.
Generally, it’s easier to have 60+% winrate in top 10, than it is in top 1k (which is kinda logical, since if you had 60% in top 1k, you’d break through to top 100 anyway).
Incorrect usage of the razor. If you really used it, you’d have to choose between:
a) scenario 1, yours, where EVERYONE is wrong, even though some of them have played the deck, about how hard it is to pilot;
b) scenario 2, correct one, where it’s easy to see that weapon rogue is easy to play because its’ winrate drops the higher the rank its played in, which means that pilots of the deck are better in lower ranks than in higher ones, with everything else being equal. Since that doesn’t make any sense, it follows logically that the deck is easier to play, than it is to play AGAINST it, and when people know how to play against it, it loses its’ winrate.
scenario b) is obviously a simpler one, and you’d have to choose that one if you were using Occam’s razor. Don’t let the wall of text fool you. It’s much simpler and more logical.
Eh, let’s not exaggarate. You have tons of options to go for, and sometimes the optimal play isn’t easily calculated. Like, there are things that ARE very easy to calculate:
a) Opening 3 turns → play the 1-mana tutor spell turn 1 → play the weapon (quick pick if you have, hero power otherwise) and hit facer for 1 or clear minion if 1 health only → play the only minion in your deck to buff the weapon. There isn’t a single other play which ends up with a 3/3 weapon on turn 3 which won’t lower your winrate by a ton, because if you use one of the buffs, that’s 3 less cards in your hand and deck which you need to finish (because if you already buffed your weapon, you lose that buff and the 2x minions are now useless and unplayable)
b) When to play Harmonic pop in general (usually when it’s deal 1 buff 3)
c) When to play direct burn dmg spells (Evi and similar stuff, you keep them for finishing or killing taunts to finish).
Others, are not. I played 300 games of it, and there’s a lot of close calls which I’m still not sure about.
Yeah, every deck has moments like this. Weapon rogue just isn’t some kind of sleeper high skill deck. It often is swinging at you for around 3 on turn 3, ~9 or so on 4, ~15 ish on 5, and at that point the game looks pretty much over for one deck or the other.
Control decks can drag it out a bit, and sometimes aggro can get under it with a well timed freeze or neophyte style card.
I just can’t consider it a particularly high skill deck given how much of a solitaire experience it tends to be. Not everything successful in top 1k is a high skill cap deck, sometimes it is just meta favored.