I’m pretty sure that it’s actually impossible for Blizzard to please the Hearthstone community, because after seeing so many different metas, I can guess how the community will react and complain no matter what is done.
If the meta is aggro dominated, people will complain that games are over after 3-5 turns and they aren’t getting to play the game (see Pirate Warrior, Aggro Shaman, and Face Hunter Metas).
If the meta is tempo/midrange dominated, people will complain that whoever curves out the best wins and that the game isn’t interesting because it’s just about playing things on curve (see Secret Paladin, Midrange Hunter, Discover Mage metas).
If the meta is control dominated, people will complain that games take too long and that it’s no fun that their opponents have answers to their cards and plays (see current Control Warrior Meta and basically the entire Year of the Mammoth Meta).
And, if the meta is dominated by combo, people will complain that the game is solitaire and that there’s no way to interact with opponents before they combo kill them without having to interact at all (see miscellaneous Combo druids, Naga Sea Witch Giants, Malygos decks, etc…)
Everyone continues to cry for nerfs against cards that they lose to and proclaim that these changes will be a panacea and all that is needed for some perfect, utopian meta game. However, history suggests that all that will happen is that new decks will take the place of the old ones and people will find new cards and decks to complain about. Because, in the end, it’s not that most cards are overpowered or bad for the game. It’s because people instinctively hate any card(s) that they lose to and think that only they should be allowed to win.
So many people dont read wordy posts, like this. I agree strongly with this post. You should post this once a day on reddit and here, until you get banned for the cause.
Yes, it is impossible to please 100% of the people 100% of the time. It’s almost as if we all have our own opinions about what is fun and the healthiest thing is to keep the meta in flux and not make anything too broken for too long.
It’s also as if the population on the forums or on Reddit are only a fraction of the people actually playing the game. I can’t think of any other reason to disregard the things that are constantly being complained about until actual data can be gathered, and seeing if the data agrees with the complaints.
I think Hearthstone is still, even after all these years, searching for it’s identity in terms of game flow. For how HS plays I, personally, only think Fatigue Control decks are actually bad for the game in design; however, others would obviously disagree with me.
I kind of wish we could see a design philosophy for HS emerge but it seems to jump around a ton due to the “take turn” system I feel HS has been using for class balance which creates confusion of what HS is looking to achieve.
You completely misunderstand the point. People don’t generally hate any type of deck (maybe control). They hate the tools those decks have and the tools they have to deal with them. They hate the way blizzard literally makes said decks too strong and way blizzard literally makes classes too weak in order to sell packs. And there is a general hate for how little blizzard actually does for this game beyond pumping out unbalanced cards and lopsidedly balanced classes.
Blanket statements like this just aren’t true. Sure, there are a lot of folks that will jump on here to call for nerfs against something they just lost to. But there are a lot of people who put thought into what is and what isn’t an acceptable power level.
I can’t find a single pro who doesn’t think Luna’s Pocket Galaxy should be nerfed. Does that mean that everyone who calls for the card to be nerfed is just salty about losing to Mage?
Hearthstone has had a very smooth game flow since the very beginning. Aggro, midrange, and control are easily determined my mana ratios and curve, the strategies are straightforwardly defined and the tools work together well. What do you mean by lack of identity?
MTG, to use as a point of comparison, is vastly more disjoint on game flow. An aggro deck and a control deck might as well be playing different games as far as how the interactions between the cards affect player activity.
On another axis, Hearthstone has specifically avoided resource destruction. Offensive discard and mana disruption are tech cards aimed at checking the power of combo decks, not primary win conditions. That’s as much an identity as any tempo-based metric.
I don’t think you’re giving the designers enough credit.
Its because blizzard tries to please everyone,and then in the end no one gets pleased.
They want the hardcore ccg fans,they want the casuals,they want the new players,they want the young players. And all those players they all want something different from the game,often they bite eachoter with their desires.
This goes far beyond the traditional differences between control agro and combo. Its the way in which these archetypes are set up.
Some like it simple,some like it complicated,some like it random,some like it fast,some like it slow,some like easy to play “I win cards”,some like complicated and difficult to play “I win cards” and some don’t like “I win” cards at all.
OP devs could of / could still take different decisions than they did / plan on doing.
we all want to be involved in molding the game, but if the devs don’t talk to us on here, and instead resort to like twitter / reddit, its totally neglecting the forums. twitter reddit for days, but forums? What are forums?
Example.
Taking away “im sorry” emote and shoving in those “wow” emotes in like 2016 I think? That was a gigantic, since ‘massive’ is a forum buzzword that should be avoided, mistake.
"im sorry’ swapped out for “wow, look at what I just did, or you just did, or did not do”.
It’s just so mocking over cool, like im sorry was.
So there is one example of mistakes made / poor steering of the HS ship.
Here’s another:
Gold epics reward 400 dust. You know how rare those are to unpack?
Does 400 dust match that rarity, relative to a normal legendary? No, not at all.
There’s a second example.
Add in like at least 20 more big things this game has done wrong by dev choice, or never adjusted to be up to times like the 400 dust gold epic…‘balance’…that is off-balance realistically. It doesn’t even get talked about either, just “whats the next expansion’s theme” and stuff.
These are dev-101 mistakes.
You have to talk about all problems, openly, and not just about the next expansion and small things relative to that.
Nobody wants to play meta and then just talk about next expansion’s theme. That’s like totally the same person as everyone else.
You best watch out Thorodan, I’m making Renounce Darkness in wild more than a meme. That Tier 3 spot is mine, just wait an see.
Abusing Barnes into Y’Shaarj. Using my new Quest card an Plot Twist to guarantee I get Highrolls an then discounting class cards by 1 an tapping into 0 mana cards, good game well played.
Basically, how long should the average game last and what mechanics the team wants to focus on. It feels like, to me, that the team isn’t consistent on what parameters for power are. Shudderwock is nerfed but not Mind Blast Resurrect Priest for example in RR’s meta.
They’ve stated a strong dislike, in the past and granted different leadership, of “from hand” OTK then print Mecha’thun.
It just feels disjointed in terms of acceptable power level on cards even when a deck isn’t strong/top.
Yes but I think that you also miss the entire point.
Community discussions and people pointing out balance flaws/defending cards are VERY healthy for a cardgame like this one. Imagine if no one would give real feedback here?! That would mean the game is dead. As long as the discussion stays polite, there’s nothing that speaks against “PLS NERF” posts.
I’m a close friend to the Ubisoft community manager in Europe. I talked with him about HS and how the hs-crew respond to it’s customers.
That’s where I think HS is really, really, REALLY bad. They suck at customer response, they nerf without discussion, and they can’t even give a response to the massive Control warrior/conjurer hatred. I don’t say they need to nerf every card that’s complained about, but they need to interact with the community!