Because it dies to weapon rogue / from hand burst?
If rogue gets nerfed, Mozaki is just waiting to become the 30% of the meta deck everyone is complaining about.
The deck is absolutely busted exactly because it has everything it needs outside of a favorable meta, which is headed our way if blizzard only nerfs rogue.
It’s a deck you have to kill before turn 7, or you probably lost.
Mozaki is totally the issue.
Especially when you recognize they are playing it and can’t do anything.
I actually was like “they only have 2 cards in hand theres no way…”
to prevent them from playing 5-7 0 cost spells and then dropping a 7+ cram session
Well Mozaki and other effects like him should be changed to : Every time you spend mana on a …
So 0 mana cards does not benefit quests/mozakis and any other triggers. That would balance it out.
Or to change Mage draw to :2 mana draw 1 If you have spell power draw 2.
So no Draw 6-9 cards for 0 mana and limit Mozaki to max 5 SP in a turn.
One or the other should limit the turn 6-7 OTK.
I actually think this should be true of cards in Hearthstone in general - thinking of N’Zoth/resurrection priest shenanegans, for example. I know they’re not currently T1 strats (because of OTK prevalence) but the play patterns always felt very toxic to me, relying on cheating/resurrecting a super small pool of the same cards over and over again…
Also this lol.
Are ultimately the problem IMO. Sorc’s Apprentice should have been fixed years ago…
The turn timer should be the hard limit on that deck. Doesn’t stop cheats though, and Blizzard showed with the snip snap fiasco this kind of stuff is hard to snuff out, cos people gonna people. Sorcerer’s apprentice needs to die. It’s time, people.
Also, unfashionable opinion, but make Secret Mage great again!
Just bump Flow by another mana and we’re fine if that deck needs to go.
Cringeworthy phrasing aside (lol) I actually agree with this… people hate the deck for good reason, it is extremely old/tired, but I actually think the play patterns are fun, dynamic and rewarding. It feels great to sus out bluffs/secrets, and I find games against that deck produce a lot of tense moments with multiple potential lines of play, inflection points, reliance on meta/game knowledge/decision making to win etc.
Again, I totally get why people hate the deck (it has remained largely unchanged for years) but I actually think that one IS an example of fun, dynamic CCG gameplay. All IMO obviously.
I think people hated it because it forced you to think about your plays, and it brutally farmed noobs/bad decks. It was a very skill testing deck for all the reasons you mentioned, and it had pretty fair matchups into most good decks. Some slightly favoured, some slightly unfavoured. I don’t know that we should expect more from wild.
I’m thinking the best bet is to nerf Mozaki directly because all other cards are played in other decks. Instead of potentially killing multiple mage decks, I’d rather see just this one killed. I feel like if IF is nerfed, it can’t be done without rebalancing the cost of several mage spells so that they’re cost effective. I imagine T5 doesn’t want to revamp so many cards when they can simply kill one problematic card.
Yeah, I personally think that card should be sorc apprentice, then take a look at what happens from there… I think Mage would probably need buffs elsewhere so that they had more to play than just secret mage, but that card has singlehandedly generated more frustration than any other card in the game’s history I think, even more than ice block… and they are often used in the same deck lol.
Maybe we just rip the bandaid off at this point and accept the fact that the class essentially needs another look overall? These OTK play patterns are not healthy and addressing them from a structural standpoint should be the #1 priority IMO.
We have a literal core set rotation in front of us.
It’s not dificult to make It solid with good will.
It’s not like they not have time to reconsider what should be back for mage or not.
And what wasn’t print yet from next sets can and should be changed accordingly but will probably not be a problem
I have a feeling it will be nerfed,so you can relax. Everything mage that is remotely powerful gets nerfed and always has.
Thank goodness its the only deck that is too good, (at tier 2/3 lol) you know?
The cards that make the deck work are rotating anyhow.
I just lost to Druid on turn 5. Good thing that isn’t too OP.
Same with Warrior.
And Paladin
And Rogue.
And Hunter.
the difference is you can actually do something against them, in theory.
Against mozaki mage what is the plan? Hoping the opponent doesn’t draw IF early and hoping they don’t have mozaki and crem session in hand.
You can’t really play around it, or prevent the OTK from happening; you can just win before they draw the combo, which happens too quickly for an OTK deck (just like garrote rogue, which was nerfed twice, so it’s not “always mage”)
As you say, literally the only thing you can do to interact with Mozaki Mage is to kill it before it combos. You typically cannot Vol’jin the mage. By the time you play Mutanus, they’ve already played Mozaki. I sincerely can’t think of any way to interact with this deck. The same goes for Poison Rogue, although we do have anti-weapon tech and taunts. Albeit, Poison Rogue does use bleeds that can shoot over taunts, similar to mage.
Aren’t those all aggro decks? Are you sure you don’t want to just make a separate thread about this? Because it doesn’t seem like you are reading the responses you are getting explaining exactly how it’s not a legitimate comparison, so maybe you might be better served by creating your own post? Again, they are completely different stories in terms of interactivity, and aggro decks do not have the inevitability that OTK decks provide. In fact, aggro is typically a hard counter to combo…
Regardless, I agree APM/OTK is not the only problematic deck in Wild right now, but it is the topic of this thread. Do you ever play other classes by any chance? Because you seem to be taking a lot of this very personally… And if you are a Mage stan, which it kind of sounds like you might be, then maybe this isn’t the healthiest thread to be participating in? Or perhaps this is an opportunity to learn from the perspectives/experiences of others, rather than simply dismissing them as prejudice?
And Hunter has passive damage and so does Warrior.
Yes, but in a big way, hunter and warrior can be interacted with via killing their minions and by using taunts because they heavily rely on their minions. I can’t kill Mozaki because by the turn it’s played I’m dead. I’m referring to standard as I have never played wild. But even in standard, hunter oftentimes (if Quest Hunter) doesn’t really play minions either. Although, Quest Hunter in standard is rare. That may be a problem as well depending on one’s design philosophy.
Just for the record, I’m on the fence here. At my rank, I almost never run Into Mozaki. It’s not really a problem for me. However, I empathize with high legend players that run into Mozaki frequently. Having run into one or two in my playing, I can agree that it’s a horrible experience.
OTKs probably shouldn’t come down on turn 5-7. As they are now, namely Mozaki and rogue, this is all too common.
I don’t think its a problem anymore than I think Moz is. They gave mage what was left over in terms of diversity when they made Quest mage.
When it was nerfed everyone swapped to Moz mage.
There are too many calsses and not enough ways of playing this game is what i am trying to say. We used to have symmetry.
Nine classes, three types, (aggro control combo) (3x3) and then everyone complained until they made a tenth class and destroyed the product.
Now they have to force deck types because there are simply too many that would play similarly.
I agree. And T5 is solely to blame. They’re very wishy-washy on how they proclaim the game ought to be designed. Why release a card like Mozaki in the first place? It’s so clearly going to be used in an OTK deck.