Gasp, all the classes have a 50%+ win rate. Better nerf everyone into the dirt in that case, if we’re going by the forum complainers’ logic.
consider how the druid is i say it truly deserves a nerf. that deck is actually disgusting.
I intended to quit after this expansion, good or bad, to pursue other hobbies. I didn’t buy any packs, and dusted my entire non-standard collection in preparation to go out with a bang and craft everything in the Stormwind set.
But like, I’m not even tempted to craft the stuff I see played. It’s all cheap, solitaire garbage. I feel like just quitting early, it’s not even fun to play these past few weeks.
Can’t say I’m a massive fan of some of the decks currently around, losing T6 to Stealer of Souls sucks, but I can climb with QuestPriest of all things, so control isn’t completely dead.
Quest Rogue and Shaman are also pretty fun too.
Could do without ele Shaman and aggro Hunter still being a thing, I’m a bit sick of these decks tbh and they’ve hardly changed with the new cards, but he ho not the end of the world.
I do worry that Quest decks are going to get very boring soon by their nature they’re very linear , we’ll see I guess.
Sounds like a win to me. Let’s nerf or power creep over and over. Look even if you want control to exist, there’s no way a control deck could have a health pool to survive questlocks 20-30% matchups in standard or maybe 5-20% on the pure turtle ones just to have 45-60%s with aggro.
A deck being so effective the classes it counters too hard seeing no play rate is dumb, but I laugh at the sheer irony of warlock and quest mage turning tinyfin aggro priest or a few pirate priests into a archetype.
But nearly a ton of aggro priest cards are just junk neutrals without any real draw. Faster matches or not, I think the speed of the decks to end drops after 5-6 is a little silly. Aggro kills you, quest combos you, and even though the meta is 20 flavors of 51-54% face aggro, blue aggro, brown aggro and white aggro, and a couple warlocks it’s a real meta warper.
There’s no way to even print a fair control deck that could have like 50-80+ armor to survive questlock while answering enough answers without just flat out killing them like aggro. Maybe quest shaman is the closest analogue for the future, it’s good vs aggro but the warlock matchup tends to feel bad unless it’s the higher wr variants that run less bs. I’d rather face those than Stealer of souls crap. Mecha Midrange or 5-8 drops being rare in meta unless battlemaster, A card that honestly had more game ending potential for 5-6 mana than rag kills me. Or buff pally being ‘midrange’ by playing 1 mana 11/11+s off divine shoved shield procs.
Even without warlock the ability to handle those boards without devolve cards is basically gone. And who cares if it’s not fatigue if we spend 30 years watching the animations of some decks so long you get your own turn roped just trying to close em?
20 minute warlock animations games still can feel drawn out. They could literally play the entire deck for free after sos if not for animation times is just horrible design. Sos lock can be killed by aggro, but control or 1 turn slower midrange or
combos can’t really compete. That’s why imo I see the deck as unhealthy and stealer could easily be killed and they could play the other ‘better archetypes’ decks could be built to handle better.
What’s faster, spending 5-8 minutes to play a card to turn 8, or 5-12 minutes of watching your opponent play and draw their entire deck by turn 5-6 roping every turn by design since their cards are all free or cost YOUR health being played for damage? “Just kill them” is the reason aggro is on top of the lists.
You can’t even counter aggro fully past 60-70% but if you try any lock decks create conditions most decks can’t fight lategame. So kill them and play aggro is the answer and yet people wonder "huh… I wonder why it’s all aggro when it’s not even #1. Because it kills anything hard that can beat #1-3 on a order of magnitude worse than the aggros matchups are for them.
They try to make you happy that a deck is running Murloc Tinyfin, but they don’t tell you the whole point of running it is to kill it yourself. The tiny death cries will haunt me to the end of my days. 
Their sacrifice will be glorified when the Black Empire has been reinstated.
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i still struggle to see how people lose to shadowpriest apart from high-roll illucia, but might just be the decks i tend to play.
Fel Demon Hunter and Questline Shaman.
That’s what they want.
i think the Priestquest kinda illustrates their current train of thought (if we want to be generous and call it that) - i think they want control to basically win without any nuance past a certain point, so basically they think it´s supposed to be some sort of slower combo deck.
At least that´s what i gather from this expansion. (e.g. Questshaman throwing down 2 10mana creatures for 3mana as a 95% gameending move).
While I (and probably at least some other control players) think the favour should shift gradually towards the controldeck in a longer game but not just suddenly and basically without any effort past a certain point.
It’s the same deck… gotta go face
I just want to pretend reno exists. Tails you lose stop playing broken garbage. Heads you win omg stop making previously t2 decks broken anti aggro garbage.
You’re not allowed to win or lose homebrew or netdeck or not, but you never saw quite the same rage winning 20 zoolocks games in a row. You just can’t win, win or lose. So I’m going to glue renos picture over shaman and pretend he was still alive. This meta sucks, everyone hates losing and no one enjoys winning with anything but cancer the other person hates even more. If I can’t enjoy wild, I’ll make your aggro quests die as a proxy. Deal with it until wild is returned jk lmao.
I think we’re locked into a never ending debate regarding game length and deck end game.
And I don’t think people think three expansions ahead when they complain about the meta of today (I mean the metaphorical today rather than today today).
A year ago plenty of people were lauding LOR and complaining about “created by”.
And we get LOR type of endgame inevitability where it stops the need for generating infinite or near infinite resources.
That’s pretty close to what i am seeing in the 300’s legend ranks with Celestial druid really picking up steam this week. I still bounce between Quest hunter and shaman and Fel DH. Shaman and DH just being decks that are very good all around at dealing with multiple class archetypes. Quest hunter is my guilty pleasure but i still hover around 60-65% win rate with it.
i mean the main problem is that they are not coming out and stating what their longer term vision is and what they think a healthy hearthstone should look like.
So all we can do is kinda debate in circles as we can only infer things without a proper starting point.
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I don’t think players are good at evaluating these sorts of things.
Look at the hated Mage and Warlock Questlines, for example:
yea well the designers put them in there in the first place, dunno if that speaks for their evaluation skills of what people like about the game…
To be fair quest mage is a type of card we never had before.
Very specific requirements.
What i really think that blizzard is lacking nowadays is actually:
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Take the risk of state what they want and do it regardless of backslash.
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The times were they consider nerf cards not because the powerlevel they should also consider changes that make those decks have a healthier play pattern than just nuke it from orbit.
Nowadays for example we can agree that spell mage doesn’t gonna be highrolly deck anymore if they buffed some spells.
Why ?
Powerful cards get inflated winrates in bad decks because they’re carrying the deck.
So if spell mage was actually buff nowadays to be slightly better overall the Winrate of incanter’s flow should go down some more extra points because there would be more times were the deck would win without it.
Making it be barely a good card with around 55% Winrate than the actual 60%.
People rarely speak out positively and concretely about what they like in the game.
Except that some players want Tech cards printed in every set that auto win against that set’s win conditions.
I remember thinking 3 years ago “These Control players just want a card that Discovers 3 tech choices for every occasion”. And they printed Zephyrs. And a lot of people still hate Zephyrs, many Control players because it could be used for proactive purposes.
I like tech cards since they add a dimension of “who can copy the best brainless netdeck” and a “what can you add to make yourself even stronger laddering using intelligent gameplay?” to the view.
From what i have heard, even when they’re pretty much a netdeck, people just want to copy one deck off the internet, have someone smarter do it for them or watch patterns that work, copy it, change literally 1 card of 30 by doing some crap like. “Hah, i have copied 29/30 cards and put a card that makes no sense into this deck randomly that only makes the deck weaker! OMG, why isn’t my auto select deck winstreaking, so op!”
There are people out there who would unironically vote out there for a card that read. “0 mana: take 10 damage. Heal 5-20 every other turn depending on rng. In 6 turns, generate infinite value and win the game”, and people would be all out for such a i win button and point out hyper aggro could kill it 60% of the time or something.
Wouldn’t make it brilliant game design. There are acceptable counters, but the gameplay is important, but when you can just disregard and just look at a list where the #1 is aggro, #2 is aggro, #3 is aggro… and the #4 is a deck that kills everything that isn’t aggro… and you say #4 is fine and #5 is broken… Nerf mage again or complain you want more 5 minute toilet games while the same decks are literally roping every turn by game design as a limiting mechanic to them playing the entire deck on turn 5 as a ‘solution’… It’s hard for me to believe someone is making well thought out approaches into the game. Other than just saying gameplay doesn’t matter, coinflips balanced!
Gee… i wonder why im trying to play a game with a board instead of rock paper scissors when hearthstone has had more gameplay than checkers and somehow went even less. hmmmm… I don’t know, how about at the start of the game, we just flip a coin secretly, and 20 minutes later you find out who wins or lost? Make a game where the gameplay doesn’t even matter. I’m not saying decks should be uncounterable, but there should be back and forth gameplays for all sides. As it is, it’s just a one sided exchange of aggro and card draw and 0 mana cheats geting more and more out of hand while flipping powercreeping wild of all things. It’s just not healthy long term game design.
They already made standard to balance card power levels without needing to power creep to the moon every expac… And then they did just that… for… no apparent reason anyways… … A huge part of wild meta was that if a deck countered you, with a 1000 card pool, you could find answers if you really want to try solving it. See a 2000 armor druid? How about a platebreaker! Hmm. matchup too rare to be worth teching for, enjoy. Hmm, That cubelock is running some 3 drop demons… I wonder if there’s a good silence and whatya know, if you look for dead cards you find a 3 mana 4/3 silence a demon everyone missed, made in a meta every demon used to have downsides instead of pure upsides… neat!
Now it’s just extremely stale gameplay and 20 flavors of aggro. If you like aggro, sure. But as far as i see, aggro players have their own problems of “nerf everything that wins against me or plays a aoe”, and wants to have infinite draw, begs for it, and gets it. and wants to beat everything without beating the crap out of it’s only few counters. Not to mention pally still goes even and has ridic value.
For some reason, players just hate aggro, aggro, and aggro, but god forbid you play the only deck that beats aggro or get told “stop playing a horrible homebrew wtf he’s beating me 20 times in a row with his own list! NERF IT IMMEDIATELLY”
There’s plenty of balance between. “There should be lots of gameplay styles, but the game should be fun”, or “Whatever deck the fourm poster posts, should always win and have no counters”. But you can’t deny some of the feelings and winrate performance is just nuts. There’s a literal list printing aggro at almost all 3 top spots. With 54% aggro hunter, 54% aggro druid, 53.8% aggro priest… and people go. “Don’t nerf questlock, it’s only the 4th best deck at 53.6%” (like, 10% less win margin) deck… with 3 highly viable archetypes from instaklling control t6, to spamming 0 mana giants for 8/8… to just flat out being used by decks that don’t need it as a 1 damage lifesteal fireball, completable on life taps, that turns fatigue and drawbacks into a advantage. They can’t play the 5 mana 7/7 they got on turn 4 for 0 mana right? That’s the downside for warlock apparently. /s
I know everyone has there pet decks, but instead of going ‘there’s higher winrate’, look at the deck. Im asking to see less bs in the game and clearly warlock has multiple healthy archetypes, stealer of souls could be a deleted card, so ergo warlock should be fine and deleting it would change nothing.
But no, a +1% winrate margin on a quest shaman is bad… over the 3-4x winrates… cause someone’s aggro deck got aoed… Yeah… this forum clearly just has no sense of consistency on not liking aggro, but wanting infinite draw, no counters, and hating other aggro decks and the 1 deck that can sometimes beat it. Not to mention balance decisions being made by players that brag about diamond 10s or gold 10s… These forums are ridiculous.
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