In defense of Irondeep Trogg

Multiplayer Discussion
21

Tech cards can be too good, particularly if they are overly flexible. Irondeep Trogg is the quintessential example of this.

It was an inevitable response to the “Combo Bad” mentality so prevalent in the playerbase. The effect of copying buffs on a 1-Mana card that punishes decks like Questline Mage and Celestial Druid above all else is not coincidental; it was obviously released in its current form to appease people who despise decks like that.

Unfortunately, this Trogg does more than that. It punishes some classes just for being the classes they are: think Mage and Druid, almost always spell-heavy regardless of what decks they play; think Rogue, which uses spell-based removal to capitalize on tempo even in decks that play a lot of minions; think any Questline deck that has to play that card, regardless of how powerful the deck is.

I do agree that there is a genuine need for using new cards to push people away from combo decks, be they tech cards or promotions of other strategies.

This is because it does not matter how mediocre or bad they are; people will always think combo decks are better than they actually are, and will continue playing them, particularly if they are largely deemed fun to play.

This is unless they are nerfed into oblivion outright, something that is rarely done these days as per the new balance philosophy. (We won’t see something intentional like deleting Kingsbane Rogue entirely or severely crippling Combo Druid into nothing with ramp nerfs, and are unlikely to see something presumably accidental like Galakrond Shaman.)

Combo decks will inevitably exist, and they will continue to be overplayed until people are finally convinced that they are not as good as they believe them to be. The answer is cards like Irondeep Trogg – but not as ridiculously powerful.

A card being a minion does not magically make it interactive by nature, any more than a card being a spell magically makes it uninteractive by nature. Irondeep Trogg causes too many non-games against too many classes, archetypes, and even individual decks.

Two wrongs do not make a right, especially when one of those wrongs is grossly overrated in the first place. (The power of combo decks, and in particular, spell-based ones.)

3 Likes
22

Well…

Said It was BS when people where talking about OTK decks and gonna still say that it’s BS now that it’s this trogg card or whatever.

People killed any chance for more interaction than that when they did start that dumb crusade against RNG past year.

Until blizzard gives people a freaking midfinger and return the RNG where It should be this is the most interactive the game can be.

To have different decisions being done you need different scenarios to happen and they can only happen with RNG.

23

You damn Puzzle Box fanatics let that card die already its never coming back.
The clown days are over .

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24

Epic · Spell · Fractured in Alterac Valley · Cast 20 Mana worth of Mage spells at enemies.

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25

I mean, if you to go to that length to take down Trogg that is fine since that is not the only thing that Paladin depends on.

Trogg’s Blessing

Class: Paladin

Format: Standard

Year of the Gryphon

2x (1) Irondeep Trogg

2x (1) Knight of Anointment

1x (1) Prismatic Jewel Kit

2x (1) Righteous Protector

2x (2) Hand of A’dal

1x (2) Murgur Murgurgle

2x (2) Noble Mount

2x (2) Ram Commander

2x (3) Alliance Bannerman

2x (3) Goody Two-Shields

2x (3) Hold the Bridge

1x (3) Saidan the Scarlet

2x (3) Stonehearth Vindicator

1x (4) Blademaster Samuro

1x (4) Cariel Roame

2x (4) Sunwing Squawker

1x (5) Blessing of Authority

1x (6) Battleground Battlemaster

1x (7) Lightforged Cariel

AAECAeq3BAj8uAO/0QP76AOR7AOq+APH+QPgiwTquAQLysEDytEDzOsD8PYDjfgDtoAEoY0EyaAE4aQE9KQE+aQEAA==

To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

To note, I would like to thank Wardrum for showing me this list.

26

That card plays ONLY Mage spells and targets enemies when possible.

Never go FULL RNG…Archmage Rune is fine.

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27

I agree with you!

But that’s still an RNG Clown Fiesta. Merely a more controlled, better-designed, and more enjoyable one. :yum:

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28

Junk fiesta actually.

Sorry but that type of card is as good as the number of spells It can cast.

Sure fire on enemy is cool and all but not makes by the difference.

The mana amount is specifically calculated for the card to be bad and anyone with actual experience with both understand that in less than 5 matches.

It’s like i said :

Who want different decisions to be done needs to also want different scenarios.

There is no midterm to that answer. Or It is yes to both or no to both.

Just not whine about too linear matches If you say no.

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29

A question for someone who hasn’t seen or played it… yet

Does the copy go off the moment the spell is played or after?

I.e.

T1 play trigger
T2 opponent plays coin, I now have two 1/2 troggs

30

After, so if the spell kills or transforms it nothing is summoned

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31

So people are complaining that they can’t kill a 1/2 on t1?

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32

Kind of, it is more powerful late game. Turn 6 can see Paladin play it in combo with Blessing of Authority to make it a 9/10, so an opponent’s spell will summon another 9/10.

I personally don’t have an issue with the card and am confused that others do. But what can you do.

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33

We’ve discussed this very subject many times, and will just have to respectfully agree to disagree. You do not actually seem to reply to the points others make when it comes to this conversation, so please forgive me if I don’t want to revisit this in an off-topic conversation.

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35

Because no one reply Mine either.

I never did see someone get to me and say:

This is how you get people to make different decisions without create different scenarios.

Or:

This is how you create different scenarios without depend on RNG.

My point isn’t that people feelings not Matter.

My point is that the price for more interaction and less linearity is more RNG and you can’t really negotiate it.

Not because i not want but because it’s the Nature of the game.
You either pay or don’t.

36

Nothing is broken if everything is broken. Algebra is awesome!

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37

Good, people should start playing minions instead of uninteractive spell-only OTK decks.

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38

I think it would help alleviate some frustrations if they changed the words ‘summon a copy’ to ‘summon another trog’.
It would still be difficult to deal with but it would at least still be manageable without all the other buffs that are placed on it.
idk. just my humble opinion. I just had to concede because my opponent had placed divine shield and a libram at turn two or three (can’t remember exactly). it would have been manageable in time had it not retained all buffs in the copies. I still would have taken a great deal of damage but I would have at least still thought I had a chance after turn two.

2 Likes
39

As a primary mage player, trogg is nothing. But then I don’t play all spells. I’ve been killing troggs with spell damage minions + spell, hero power, Ivus (love this card), devolving missiles/mass poly, etc. It’s really not that complicated.

Troggs is a much needed card. In fact I even run it myself in a meme mage deck using Overlord Runthak to buff it.

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40

I think, if somehow its get nerfed, i would setttle with. After the opponent cast a spell, you summon one copy of this. So its a chain effect, not exponensial.

1 Like