Tess is ok because you know exactly what cards you load into her, I would say she isn’t even RNG though she can highroll on order of spells ?
It’s the beginning of the rotation so the countess cannot help but hit good and useful legendary cards. Near the end of the meta is when she becomes questionable.
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Tess is multi layer RNG. before you play her (where yes order of the spells can matter) you have to first randomly get stolen cards.
The biggest highroll (in standard) is still jackpot, and it is true to its namesake. Sometimes you get the nuts (with naga to jank it), sometimes it wiffs.
The next way to get crazy stolen cards is concoctions which is RNG on top of RNG (first have to get the concoction that generates card, then you roll and see what card you get)
The rest are more tame (mix tape and plagurize copy opponent cards), but it just so happens they don’t produce as crazy highrolls, and probably not a key part to any deck that want to abuse Tess.
Another thing to note here is that while one tess might not be as strong as a single play of Countess+invites (especially post rotation when a rogue can’t play like 10 or 15 stolen cards before Tess), do remember rogue is the class with bounce. Yeah a Countess lucking into Rommath or that mage naga that remembers spells lets them do the silly RNG again, but that’s by chance. Rogue can replay Tess a lot more easily (as long as Tess doesn’t kill herself when played)
The reason we don’t hear as much about Tess is that shadowstep Tess is more for a long game, whereas pallies and countess finish games fast. As noted by another comment, it’s the rest of the paladin deck and all the pressure that set it up for countess+invites to finish up.
I think it’s good to remember 2 years ago Barrens aggro pally. They were killing people with like… conviction+battlemaster? Yeah those cards did get nerfed, but just hitting what they play on the last one or two turns to kill you doesn’t stop the first 5-7 turns where they win board and pressure you. So stuff like sword of the fallen and hand of a’dal had to be hit too. It took several rounds of nerfs (and possibily miniset adding new cards) for paladin to slide back down.
So the lightray nerf is the first tap. Maybe there will be more taps to other cards. Or maybe nerfs and buffs to other classes with shift the meta around. Fudging around the earlier turns would do more than touching the countess.
The countess is like rag in classic. Yeah, many games might have had rag land the last hit, but rag himself isn’t really the problem if there was one. What’s more important is what happened in the turns before that led to rag landing the last hit.
When you drop a jitterbug on a board full of DS you are guaranteed a free hand refill. It may not be a powerhouse play but it gives Paladin the stamina to keep dropping on curve all the way to the countess.
That was my observance after playing 16 really fast games. Paladin is really fast in your face whether it be Pure or Mech. The true power card of the deck is the Maul. That card is very powerful.
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You’re just wrong, period. Countess is fine, it’s a 7/7 that doesn’t gain much benefit until turn 8 and unless you hit battlecrys, it doesn’t actually make a difference until turn 9. Priest and Rogue commons roll higher than countess frequently on the RNG scale.
I’m totally fine with Lightray being nerfed to 10. It was possible to roll duals out on turn 4 which was the only broken issue, not the double turn 5. Multiple classes have removals that can easily melt both, especially DK’s infamously holding corpse explosion for that very card.
Sounds like a skill issue with you and Pally honestly.
like I didn’t play pally enough to know what this does other than it stops them drawing some 10 mana card consistently but I don’t know what it is ?
though I tihnk that was more a design issue of order in the court making their decks consistent and not the lightray
Especially after rotation it is a ton of stats.
No tempo or midrange deck can handle Countess. Your argument is nonsense. It’s completely biased because all you clearly play is Paladin. You have no perspective.
It’s completely meaningless. Lightrays regularly hit 0 cost by turn 6. There was a card that did that back in the day (that had to be in hand) and they nerfed it. This has taunt too.
The requirement is so brain dead easy and dumb too. “Play class cards”. Minions don’t need to die, there’s no treant requirement, you don’t have to lose health, or hold cards in your hand. Just… play the game. In fact, it rewards Paladin for dumping their hand and gives refill. That’s… ludicrous.
You’re kidding. What the HELL deck can handle 2 0 cost 5/5s on turn 5 that isn’t also completely broken? The rotation made it even more difficult.
Pure Paladin is currently sitting at a 70% winrate. 70% Actually look up the data before you tell me I’m wrong.
Sounds like you’re such a bad player you’re not doing extraordinary well with a 70% winrate deck.
Seriously, I’m so sick of players who have no concept coming up on here and going “Hey a card that lets me play 4-10 drops for 2 mana isn’t that broken”. It is. It’s outrageous. Completely out of line with anything else in the game.
They’ve toned down a lot of what Rogue, Priest, Mage, Druid and Warlock could do from last year, now it’s Paladin and DK’s turn.
More than a tiny cost increase on Lightray.
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Lightray gets discounted by how many pally cards you played this game.
It’s used by pure pally as a burst tempo tool. They already push a lot of board in the early game, and then they can cheat out an additional 5/5 taunt.
Throwing all this tempo early means you have less left in you to deal with the countess and invites. Or you just die before then. That’s fine too for the pally.
Delaying lightray by just one mana can mean pally delays their current plays by one turn. One turn can mean a lot for both the pally being aggro pushing and their opponent defending and trying to stabilize.
Another ramnification of the nerf affects non-pure pallies, or pure pallies who happen to run 10 drops (garden’s grace) with lightray. Order in the court would be less consistent.
Countess and Lightray have been around for a while, now they’re completely broken all of a sudden? Those aren’t the cards that made Pally hit 70 percent, which is attributed more towards the start of a new xpac and meta stabilization.
Plenty of Decks can handle the dual Lightray. DK, DH, Priest, and Rogue especially. The game is littered with board removals, burn, and Discover. You sound like someone who auto concedes when someone drops a minion on the first turn.
Your logic is flawed regarding winrate cards as well. Sanguine, Disco Maul, Righteous Protector, and The Purator all have a higher winrate than Countess. So by your logic, if Countess is broken, they must be absolutely god tier…
Again, Divine Shield and Draw are the two main issues that are pushing Pally over the top. Once those are toned down Pally will fall
Back to Earth and DK will reign supreme.
Yes, every other class took major hits from rotation, Paladin got off easy by comparison and Paladin’s FOL set is really good. So these already top tier cards got even better.
These cards are all tremendously strong too and there’ll need to be some nerfs somewhere, but I’d rather they hit Lightray and Countess than hit Sanguine Soldier or Righteous Protector. (I dunno how you even nerf Sanguine Soldier or Righteous Protector)
Most likely they’ll hit Disco Maul, doubt they hit Purator. Honestly doubt they hit Countess, though I think they should. They might hit Lightray again.
They deal with dual lightray by trading off their board or they’re just playing a control deck. It’s a huge tempo swing.
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Stop, Pally lost Bannerman, Vindicator, and the Bridge from rotation alone. Three very high winrate cards. Also the Legendary pool rotation nerfed Countess less viable with the recast removals.
So cards that have been around for years (righteous protector) untouched through power creeps are now broken…
What board is a DK sacrificing when they have the corpse mechanic? What board is a Priest sacrificing at all? What board is a DH sacrificing? Cmon man you’re talking nonsense…
At the end of the day, Pally is strong now. It’s always strong in the beginning of a new season as it’s a user friendly class that has a high floor to be on top of an unstable meta. The draw and divine shield needs a nerf, the draw especially. DK will need a nerf before Divine shields though as it’s the main thing keeping them in check.
Bridge wasn’t in the standard version of Pure Pally, just the Recruit version. Neither of the other cards were as core as Brann was to Warlock/Druid, or Shady Bartender, or Tamsin (hero and minion).
Righteous Protector was in literally every Paladin deck when it was in standard between KotFT and Rastakhan’s Rumble and has been in most decks since it came back to Core.
Power creep is not a linear concept. A taunt/divine shield one cost minion that blocks 2 attacks is surprise surprise, still good even though other aspects of the game (value primarily and late game swing cards) have been power crept.
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You’re seriously trying to justify your argument by complaining about the ripple effect caused by Brann’s removal? Are you really this dumb? This is a joke right?
So now the criteria for a nerf is a good card…just say you’re biased, don’t actually understand the class, can’t beat it, and just want it nerfed because skill.
I don’t need to justify my argument. After the rotation and before the rotation Paladin was the top class in terms of winrate. Ergo, it did not get hit as hard by rotation as other classes did.
The context for this conversation was you arguing that Righteous Protector should be nerfed because it’s winrate is higher than Countess.
I argued you can’t really nerf Righteous Protector, there’s no integer you can change on it except maybe making it cost 2 and raising it’s stats. But then it’s just an annoy-o-tron. Countess on the other hand is very easy to nerf. So is Lightray. So is Maul. So is Purator.
You’re really just another annoying class apologist who only plays one class, only sees it’s perspective and thinks the fact that you don’t have a 100% win rate with it means it’s fine. Which… no. Just because someone is critical of a class you play doesn’t mean they’re wrong.
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That’s completely untrue, don’t try and use the classic political strategy and just create a false narrative. I said Countess was fine, you said she wasn’t due to her high played winrate, and I countered with numerous other balanced cards which have a higher winrate. You just believe every Pally card is broken and lack common sense to identify the overwhelming issue which is divine shield and draw.
DK, Shaman, and Pally were virtually identical. Another false narrative.
Literally stated Pally needs divine shield and draw nerfs multiple times. You’re just a clown moving goalposts and just making stuff up as you ramble. Please do not go into any litigation of any kind in your future.
…hence you’re saying that if I think Countess should be nerfed, that Righteous Protector deserves to be nerfed more because it’s winrate is higher. It was a hypothetical argument but it was still an argument.
This is not mental gymnastics. You’re either engaging with the argument I’m making (that Countess’s consistent high winrate warrants a nerf) or you’re not.
Fine, if you prefer, it was in contention to be the top class, and remains in basically the same spot alongside DK. That’s hardly a stretch from what I said. There’s really no need to be so unbelievably dramatic you’re using the phrase “false narrative”.
Just because you don’t understand what I’m saying doesn’t mean I’m rambling or “moving goal posts”. Paladin has had consistently powerful cards with basic as hell play patterns for months, they should nerf those before nerfing other newer cards which I think are more interesting. That’s the argument. Maybe I wasn’t totally clear about it but I have never said otherwise.
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Your argument is dumb, period. I don’t need to write a thesis to explain my point. Pally as a class needs a check but the cards you’re targeting are not the problem.
Your knowledge of this game is beyond underwhelming. You sound like someone stuck in plat who just plays solitaire with whatever deck you’re using. Stop looking at numbers and actually play the game and you’ll realize what’s really important to each deck for each matchup.
I’m playing the game, Countess pretty much renders any tempo/midrange match up pointless. Lightray swings the game so hard it’s pointless to continue a lot of the time.
Why even post on a forum if all you’re going to do is be insulting and not back up anything you say with facts just repeating “that doesn’t need nerfed” ad nauseum. While being ridiculous defensive and dramatic over a computer game.
What does anything have to do with playing solitaire? I’m playing an even game with an opponent, answering his threats, playing my own. Suddenly he drops a 5/5 or 2 for 0 mana without any investment, that he tutored out. It’s the exact same as the corpse mechanic you were criticizing.
You’ve literally gone from arguing the data to saying “data doesn’t matter”. I don’t really care if people move goal posts if they want to clarify their argument more, but that’s pretty much moving goal posts.
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Says the guy who only plays one class and therefore has no idea wth he’s talking about.
Maybe take your own advice and don’t play paladin for a month. Play the game, not just your rpg fantasy.
You aren’t going to win this with facts because they have long since stopped mattering to the other poster as they are arguing emotionally for their favorite toys right now.
I’d just let it go at this point.
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Yeah I will. I’m a bit flummoxed by all those comments about how I shouldn’t be a lawyer while he was calling me a dumb clown. But uh, there we have it.
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