Be it Standard or Wild, Druid is always the most annoying and cancerous class in the game whenever it sees meta relevance. Please just rework the entire class at this point because Druid has repeatedly broke the game and warped the meta every single expansion at some point for 10 years.
PC police here. Stop referring to things you do not like as cancer. It’s offensive to cancer.
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Second definition of Cancer from the Oxford Languages Dictionary:
“A practice or phenomenon perceived to be evil or destructive and hard to contain or eradicate.”
(Gambling is a cancer sweeping across the nation)
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Love Druid, it’s my most played class, but I actually agree with you.
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Yogg seems to have brought out a lot of decks, for good or bad that previously were held back by one crucial problem.
They could do ridicolous stuff, but the ridicolous stuff would never matter if you died next turn or had no board clear.
Yogg fixed that, and i actually enjoyed playing him, the decks were fun, but then it slowly dawned on me that in a meta where yogg is good, So WAS stealing him and bouncing him multiple times for free.
Choose your Adventure, Yogg vs Spellgiant Yogg edition.
Ex Situation: You are facing a spellgiant rogue in wild. Who can using Yogg to steal your yogg at any time, shadowstep it up to 2-3x in a row. And also use Dancer bounces to leave a 1 mana 7/5 each time.
It is turn 6, The spell giant rogue has left a board of 2x 8/8s arcane giants, a 7/5 rush dancer, a 24/24 edwin, and a spell jamming 5/5 loathneb on board. ± your own stolen minions as well.
CHOOSE your next action!
- Try to play a AOE spell that is out of reach. It costs 9 mana due to Loathneb. You are on turn 6.
Result: → Take 8/8 + 8/8 + 7/5 + 24/24 + 5/5 damage to face. Die.(47-52 Total dmg.)- You drew your own Yogg, attempt to play it.
- A: Cast Hysteria. You clear the board, but your Next yogg can be mind controlled to mind control your next minion. The 24/24 edwin might also survive…
- B: Mind control Edwin (24/24): You leave the 8/8 + 8/8 + 7/5 + 5/5s alive. Next turn, take each to face. You take 28 dmg to face, and probably die,
– o Rogue can also mind controls Edwin back, then use your own yogg as well to clear your own board, gamble on 10-20 tendrils, or shadowstep your own stolen yogg for another 7/5 dancer.
- Your yogg hasn’t had enough spells cast yet, and costs 8 mana on turn 6. Your coin is 5 mana. → Die.
No yogg options:
- C: Choose to do nothing. You die because you did nothing
- D: Play a taunt, it gets stolen up to 3 times in a row and you die.
- E: Play a board, it gets hysteriaed up to 3-5 times in a row and you die.
- F: The Rogue actually didn’t have yogg the whole time.
o You will still have a board of 8/8s + 14/14 to 24/24 edwins to deal with ± Loathneb. AND they WILL have Yogg later. HAVE fun!- G: The rogue develops sudden amnesia when they bounce yogg, and forgets they’re holding him.
Result: Congratulations! you WIN!.
- Note: If you rely on this, you rely on your opponent sucking to win. XD
So yeah, Yogg is a pretty fun card to play when you’re the only one… But even Yogg vs yogg shennanigans i 100% can see kinda get pretty messy pretty quick. Even as a user, i can defintely see the problems. Yogg might make building boards feel very bad if he’s allowed to stay in meta.
I’m using him and I suppose it’s a taste of my own medicine lol. But it does kinda seem like Yogg can definitely kinda get… Boardlocky (?) when he can be bounced for free, replayed 1-5 more times for cheap, and maybe even leave behind a 7/5 rush body, especially in spellgiant rogue.
Like, These decks want a clear.
But ***maybe Yogg might be too much value, for 0 mana, played up to 1-6 times in a row, and also being combined with ± loathneb OR standard ramp combo board states to lock the board + clear?
So, it does seem like Spellgiant Rogue found some counters, (i think the soft counters are watchposts and the 3 mana 2/4 drake), but i can definitely kinda see some the situations it can trap people in.
Kinda half wonder if BGH should come back to 3 mana 4/2 tbh. +- standard. Even if JUST to semi shoot yogg, odyn and 24/24 Loathned Edwins lmao.
Standard ramp druid is doing perhaps a bit concerningly too GOOD for a deck that just… had 2 combos removed out of it. (Despite only being 38% wr a few weeks before)
That deck can easily gamelock
Clear your board/ mc 3-5 times in a row with yogg bounces (1 yogg, 2 shadowsteps, 2 dance bounces, +1 spell copy, = 3 => 5 … 6). or make [no longer winnable] states very early to even other meta decks lol. I think people found counters, but it definitely ran rampant for a week.
But yeah, if spellgiant rogue draws well. It can definitely lock you out of any potential counterplay even for Yogg vs Yogg decks. And even if you’re playing yogg, it does kinda highlight a issue if you’re scared to play the same card you’re using. Out of fear of having it used against you 3-6 more times lol.
I’m not actually sure what the right adjustment to yogg would be,
- We saw discount cards like Flesh giants take 3-4x 1 mana taps in a row.
Clearly, mana nerfs to discounts kinda work, but the exact amount before it’s free is just a turn delay. The decks STILL end up playing for free.
o And yogg is a card that work too well with bounces.
o I think i’d rather keep him as a one time power play, but maybe limit playing him excessively for free, excessively bounced, or too cheap.
o Idea: Maybe a discount limiter to prevent him from costing under 2-5 mana?
o Alternatively I actually like the hysteria, but i do feel like bouncible 0 mana mind control might perhaps be too versatile?
(Punishes wide + punishes Tall + mcs 3x in a row + counters himself)… might be too much for a card that ends up 0.
o Mind Control Ideas: (?)
A: Mind control a Non titan(limits self mc shenanigans.)
B: Take damage equal to half the attack of the Mind-controlled Minion.
(Still powerful, but maybe edges wr. Or makes mind controlling deal light dmg as a consequence)
C: If yogg dies, Destroy the mind controlled minion. OR reduce it to 1-2 hp.(Still acts as removal)
( What IS “perfect” balance anyways? 51% wr vs 52%? )
It’s fair to note that, Most t1 decks are built upon being just +2-4% wr above 50% wr.. While we want everything to be balanced, there will inevitably always be a deck that’s maybe the best, even if it’s by 51% or 52%, Or the 54% like midrange hunter was, despite low complaints for a 54% winrate deck.
It might bring up a fair question, what EVEN does balance even mean for most people? Many people all seem to know what they dislike, but not share what they seem to want. Change they do share, do seem to get made in a few days. But then fourms have a different goal 3 days later. When they do the change 3 days later, fourms will have a ANOTHER different stance another 3 days later.
Are they supposed to get a time machine? XD
Im just jesting of course. But should we make sure only [Insert Player’s deck here] is good, continuously shielded from nerfs, and everyone else who wins, should lose instead? I know it’s a bit geniunely strawmanny, but i am geniunely curious. What IS your guys balance goals?
To be honest, i haven’t really minded the balance approach myself, despite many of the vocal cry. Wild seems to have a good meta, cards are powerful and see play, oppressive play outliers are tuned. Although lots of people complain, i think it’s currently a turn taking balance approach i don’t mind. Something is always #1, but it doesn’t stick for long.
However, while wild has many answers and techs to use.
o I can definitely see how standard might come across as less enjoyable. Lots of decks seem quite powerful, but might vary in interactivity.
Ex: 10/12 windfury Divine shield reborn chain Stealthed Mechagons my opponent can’t deal with. Plus 1 mana saps, stat steals, 2-4 mana gains with mech squirrels, etc.
- Past otks in sif/shaman, extreme amounts of attack armor + clear in warrior. Having your entire board stolen, mind controlled, and cleared
- Having your entire deck wiped by Jail Tony, Ramp combos, invincibles board, full health regens, 20 armor draw 4s, etc.
(Nearly every class has been good)
Ex: Our meta started with Mech Rogue and Pure Pally, Then Hunter was good, Then Mage, Then warlock was good. Then Warrior was good, Then Druid was good. Nearly every single class has had a good deck or time to shine
Blizzard has been doing Turn taking balance philosophy imho. And when only one deck can be #1 at a time, it seems fair. But i can see how maybe, each deck probably does so in perhaps absurd ways.
While i actually haven’t hated the wild meta worse than other metas, and perhaps even enjoyed Titan’s wild meta honestly fairly fondly overall. I do kinda see how standard does seem to have a lot of very high powerlevels, with very strong decks that interactivity could definitely feel low in.
(Tl;dr attempt)
Druid did become strong, but seems to desperately want a clear.
( But maybe becomes too dangerous with a premium one? And Yogg is def premium clear )
o Powerful payoffs classes could always do, meant little if they just immediately died doing them. Ex: Jailer/Ramp combos, Spellgiant rogue
o Yogg semi solved this, allowing powerful payoff turns, with a swing back.
Nerf concepts (?)
Yogg? : A: Cannot be reduced below 2-5 mana.
B: Takes dmg Mind controlling
C: Cannot mc Titan minions
Tony: A: Same effect, but 7 mana?
B: 5 mana 4/6 or 4/7: Battlecry: Draw 1 card, You draw from your opponent deck this turn.(But, NEVER PERMANENTLY)
C: Opponent gains a ransom card like toggwaggle. Returning their old deck for 5 mana. For 10 mana, they can pay Tony to leave the game as well.
Blossom card
(Draw 2, gain 10 armor)
Maybe reduce bloom effect from 10 armor, back down to 6-8. Trimming the top end for Anub combos now druid is good again.
- (Nerf ideas are just concepts, and finding the right balance of them, probably(?) doing all the above of course (haha) )
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Cancer as in Zodiac Signs.
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They did and what you have today is the result that we have had to deal with for the past few years.
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Druid is a symptom of modern HS.
Modern HS, between power creep and more focus on “build around” cards and win conditions, has a lot of crazy late game plays that one cannot reasonably stop if you’re allowed to reach it.
So you either go for one of those stupid crazy late game, or you go aggro and try to kill people before they can reach their crazy late game
Given such an environment, it’s not surprising ramp druids use their ramp to rush towards some crazy late game.
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This forum: Druid is a cancer when it’s good.
Also this forum: Death Knight is a cancer when it’s good.
Also this forum: Demon Hunter is a cancer when it’s good.
Also this forum: Mage is a cancer when it’s good.
Also this forum: Priest is a cancer when it’s good.
Also this forum: Rogue is a cancer when it’s good.
Also this forum: Shaman is a cancer when it’s good.
Also this forum: Warlock is a cancer when it’s good.
Also this forum: Warrior is a cancer when it’s good.
3 Likes
Bliz should print a legendary card named after Cancer. Like the constellation.
We had crab cards before. Even one of Kazakusan’s treasures had a crab.
It’ll probably work the same way, eating something.
Maybe make it patchwerk+mutanus. Eat a minion from battlefield, hand, and deck, and gain all their stats.
That should cause enough rage that everyone will call it… ::puts on sunglasses:: Cancer
YEEEEAAAAHHHH
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I deny your reality and substitute my own.
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“Based.” 
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That sentence basically sums up your take on everything. 
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I feel confused and potentially insulted.
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Nah, my friend, just busting ya. 
Do you play HS anymore?
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Not really. A bit ago (early Anomalies) I played BGs for a couple of days. Which I count as a relapse because I’ve been trying not to play videogames at all.
I’ve been wondering if I should buy Baldur’s Gate 3 though. I have fond memories of previous Larian games.
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Why are you denying yourself fun?
I would still wait. First 2 acts make you feel like you’ve played the best game ever and then you hit act 3 and it’s gut busting.
Just like the other Larian games actually.
I’d give it another year.
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Off the top of my head, because it doesn’t fit with my image of who I want to be.
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Good lawd is that ever a good description of the Larian experience.
I don’t care though, I’ve always felt like the first half more than pays for itself.