Not gonna lie.
If cards like blood boil and hollow hound stop being exception to be the new rule the nerf to lifesteal is probably necessary.
I don’t know you but i don’t wanna play a game where everyone is reno Jackson.
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Exactly
Am I okay with a DH clearing a full board of 1/1 tokens with one card and gaining back 7 health? Absolutely
Am I okay with the same DH doing the same thing but healing for 21 Health? No way
I don’t want to be anal about it, but technically blood boil isn’t a lifesteal card, it’s a special effect that persist thru turns and unique for that card if i’m not mistaken.
Anyway, if a nerf to lifesteal is warranted, then a nerf to the damage output of various class should to. Some deck have an extreme damage output and put you on the brink of death by turn 6 or so (i’m thinking shadow priest, various aggro decks)
If you nerf defensive options, and keep on powercreeping offensive option, you end up with a meta like UiS, where no game goes past turn 9, and often end on turn 7.
Maybe you think that’s a good thing, i don’t. Because games will depend mostly on what are your first 10 or so draws.
You know you described classic hearthstone don’t you?
A well constructed deck should not be about that one specific Win condition card.
But about a well made deck that works well together. Also there is a Key difference between heal and lifesteal.
Lifesteal is a subset of healing effects that will always be a proactive card that will also help you pressure the opponent.
Healing does not resume itself to lifesteal.
If anything healing is good to have so you can punish people when they stop their constant agression.
Lifesteal is just not even care about that choice because the card do both.
In other words lifesteal is a premium healing and should not be everywhere.
It’s perfectly fine to have lifesteal options in the format. Blackwater Benemoth is an example of a healthy lifesteal minion. It triggers its effect at the end of turn and priest has minimal buffs for it, and it also doesn’t have rush. It’s 7 mana so it’s slow, but it’s pretty powerful and can be copied. This is reasonable.
Unleash fel on the other hand gets comboed with arcanist and enchanter and ends up healing for more than the demon hunter’s maximum health while simultaneously full clearing a board. Hollow hound comboed with lorethemarr theorin and bannas, and also copied multiple times and buffed again and again can result in near limitless healing while silmultaneously clearing threats.
Lifesteal is an extremely powerful mechanic, and having it in the format is fine. But mass healing with reno jackson effects that can be repeated multiple times in the same game is not ok to be prevalent like it is now. That was why the samuro + apotheosis combo got nerfed. Also, demon hunter and hunter have ways to flat out kill you dead when they get to their late game. Priest doesn’t have burst from hand like that, which is another distinction between behemoth and the others.
Moderate healing and armor gain amongst classes is fine and healthy, but reno jackson effects that can be repeated, or armor gain akin to tank up bakku warrior are not.
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I agree, lifesteal is basically removing your oppression while also destroying their hard worked damage.
Charge not being seen as an otk component is a very narrow way to look at otk.
of course it isn’t, but it’s an analogous level of healing is the point.
Or you other decks ignore the board, which is bad design all around. Control doesn’t mean it doesn’t play the board. There is lots of healing to be had from lifesteal, especially with hand buffs, cleaves, rush, and the ability to steal more life than the character you attack has.
I am not buying that lifesteal is weak, much less the “weakest” of the keywords.
I mean, apparently we needed the move the goal because I scored too easily, but whatever.
You officially have no idea what you’re talking about.
This. It also makes the early game nearly meaningless because all the DH does is draw and set up to kill you. You have to burst all the way down or they combo full heal and restart the game.
I agree with you here, for sure.
That got nerfed more because priest in forged in the barrens priest was too close to unkillable, and wasn’t running a serious way to try to win the game.
It was just heal, removal, and discover more heals and removal.
Had that been one of like, two ways priest could do that, it never would have been nerfed.
(Plus, that combo was far stronger than hound, because it hit everything, not just adjacent).
Yeah, hound is a strong card. It’s a great recovery tool. It isn’t making the hunter unkillable if it’s played around. Most of hunter’s bad matchups in top skilled play are aggressive board based decks that learned how to stop losing to it.
Not really.
If were talking about methodology what they do is basically finish the game so fast that the hunter has no time to do it/doing just one time not mattering enough.
Still the card is probably on the verge of getting out of control and has a decent chance of getting nerf next month.
I would say to nerf it’s attack by 1 if all the predictions are correct.
Always a bigger Jormungar is going to cause a lot of things to need nerfs if it isn’t redesigned.
Hodir / magnetics
Hound and Gargon
Mukla
Lorthemar…
Or it will demand that skulking geist is put back into core until it rotates.
I agree. But since HS is getting faster with each meta I don’t think nerfing cards that keep you alive is a good idea.
That just outright kills the priest colossus. It’s not a strong colossus to begin with, 7 mana for a 8 HP heal and a random removal (most of the time).
And?
Are you saying they don’t have better things to play?
I’m not sure why anyone should care if a rotating in six months card dies to save the health of the game overall.
Please tell me what Hunters do when they don’t draw cards to play on curve.
Or you could, I don’t know, drop a taunt, use a silence or removal, build a board to trade into it?
Counterplay is a thing.
No such thing as this. I’ve played against Hunters at least 10 times since yesterday and they have curved better than me while they are on a 40-card deck.
The deck is built to curve well, it only bricks at some point, which it should, because if it didn’t it would have an 80% win rate.
Are you trolling or what? The problem with Hollow Hound is the Rush, who cares about whether or not i can answer it after it has healed for 15+.
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MTG had Poison counters before Lifesteal was even a keyword.
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Yes, play minions so it is immediately effective! Make sure they get good heals so drop several minions for the cleave, too!
No, I’m not trolling. I haven’t played this deck and if I’ve seen it, it didn’t stick out in my brain. I do have a hollow hound in my deck but I included it mainly for sustainability. A back up to bait removals, buy some time to draw lethal, whatever.
You played against 10 different Hunters that curved well.
You have no idea how many matches they played where they did brick. You just happened to be their lucky match. That’s all.
For every perfect curve draw, there were at least 5 or 6 matches beforehand where players had to improvise. Not just Hunters - any deck.
Besides that, as long as you have health, you have a chance.
I do not have this deck and if I’ve faced it, I didn’t know it. Decisions have to be made. The fact of the matter is, I’d rather have it be effective in the early game to clear it than to keep it alive so they can protect it, buff it, etc.
I am simply spitballing, offering suggestions and trying to contribute to the conversation.
The fact of the matter is my play style seems to be different than most. I don’t have a problem/issue with lifesteal. I never have. For the longest time, Wild Renolock was my nemesis.
I learned how to beat it by paying attention and using unconventional methods. I experimented and had a lot of,
This is going to win me the match or lose me the match situations. Where the outcome determines if it was the right or wrong play.
The same goes for any deck I encounter. I’ve faced and beaten so many Death Knights because I know how to maximize my resources. And use them effectively.
My deck may not make sense to other people. But it makes sense to me.
I never saw the point in complaining about lifesteal. It’s like complaining about taunt. It’s been around forever, we all know what it is, you know it’s coming.
Play around it, experiment, try some new things, think outside the box or concede.
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If you bothered reading I’ve literally explained in depth why it’s even weaker in Hearthstone. Also, things can be parallel without being a one-to-one comparison. Obviously nuance can change context but again, I’ve already explained how it’s even worse in HS.
And the guy saying lifesteal is broken in MTG… what? Bro literally nobody has ever said life gain of ANY sort, let alone the slowest form of life gain, was broken in MTG aside from MAYBE Return to Ravnica block when Bant was the best deck. I can’t think of any meta in the last 20 years where life gain was a meta defining strategy. It’s not even respected in commander.