4 classes need be nerfed

Legit, just naming the classes you did outside of Druid shows how bad you are at this game. Why the heck does Rouge need to be nerfed? It’s not even over-performing in the slightest. Pally is still tier 3, with Priest performing better than it lmao. If you have 4 classes performing better than the class in question at ranks that represent half-decent players, the class/deck does not need a Nerf.

It’s more like they need to change the game up for Warrior and Druid in a way that punishes them from stacking so much armor.

As of right now, armor has no drawbacks.

I’ll take it to my grave. Outside of a rare high roll, pally is not an issue unless you’re playing an unoptimized bad deck or decks that are not well-rounded. The reason why people hate Pally right now is that it stops decks from existing with no early game board presence or decks that have put no thought into the early game.

The Warriors issue is the number of board wipes and controls it has; then it just OTKS you. I’m with you on warrior-sucking to play against, but it’s not overpowered. It just feels bad and painful to play against.

As for druid. If they nerf the ramps, it will make Warrior not feel so bad to play against. The breaking of the mana cap is the issue here once again. All classes need to be able to break the mana cap for it to be balanced.

I’m highly shocked DK was not mentioned as r shaman in your list of offenders.

Legit, though, everything you mentioned is a platinum player’s wet dream of Nerfs.

Get Gud.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

3 Likes

I’m taking that to my grave only lost to 1 in over 3 months now cause of a high roll.

That’s saying something. Also, I ran into 12 in the last 48 hours free win every time.

You all choose to pick your data to fit your arguments. I look at the data objectively. Objectively if omitting anything below d5, which is how you and I agree, the data should be looked at, pally is T3. If we take out anything bellow legend its the same thing if not worse.

No, you don’t.

You know, which deck you’re playing can change your perspective, bias you

Just because you counter a deck, it doesn’t make the deck weaker than it is.

It’s tier 1 according to every stats website AND it was brought by 8/16 of MT players this weekend, same as Tempo Druid. For half of them, Handbuff Pally is top 4 decks.

2 Likes

I would like to Share my experience during this seasons Ranking Climb.

Before I start, I want to Share some Background information.
I have played Hearthstone for long time, but I am more of a periodical player.
I play. Than quit. Than come back to play. Than quit. Etc.

The reason I do this is because of the meta.
Some meta’s I enjoy and others I don’t.
When I enjoy meta, I play a lot.
When I don’t enjoy meta, I stop playing and come back when it changes.

In addition, I want to mention, I am not the greatest Hearthstone player.
I think on average I am probably in lower to middle leagues.
The things I see can be completely different vs. what top league players see.
So forgive me if I say stuff which seems strange or odd.

————————————

This Season - I started in Bronze - Lowest Possible Tier!
I have battled my way to the tough ranks of Silver 2.

I am sort of stuck around there because I am facing tough customers.
The Silver League Meta Decks are extremely formidable.
Very tough to beat them for sure!

————————————

The Decks I play are of my own creation.
They are my own home brew - special blend!
Very powerful, indeed!
This is how I got so high!

Now just to give you background info on me.
If I was to pick my top 4 favorite deck classes in hearthstone, I would pick following:

  • Warlock
  • Death Knight
  • Demon Hunters
  • Shaman

This Season I am only played 3 of the 4 classes.

  • Death Knight
  • Demon Hunter
  • Shaman
    I get bored if I play same deck for lengthy period of time so I like to mix it up.

Now one thing I want to mention for record.
I tried playing Core Cards Death Knight & Demon Hunter decks.

They was totally horrible.
I had to make major changes so that is why my decks are a home blend.
Those recipes were very bad.
I had to replace half cards in them because it was just waste.

Furthermore, The Shaman recipes they recommend are all total trash.
3 different Shaman recipes and not a single 1 uses Murloc???

A Shaman Recipe with out Murloc’s is a Hearthstone World which is incomplete!
It’s a total riot as far as I am concerned!
I had to build my Murloc recipe from total scratch.

————————————

As for play style, I consider myself a Mid-Range player.
I try to slow down Aggro Decks so they can’t pull off their fast early turn wins.
Than I start over powering them as mana ramps up in Middle Game.

I also try to win before the Long Range players pull off their combo.
It can be tricky because sometimes they get it off and I end up losing.
This is the risk you take when you play this way of course.

————————————

Based on all the above, I want to comment on the OP Nerf suggestions
I think the OP recommendation has merit, but I don’t think it can be done.

The OP wants to nerf the following Classes:
Druid - Warrior - Rogue - Paladin
Personally, I can see why the OP wants these Classes Nerfed.

For people who don’t know, The above 4 Classes are played a lot.
These 4 Classes begin to surface around Mid-Bronze to Mid-Silver league.
They are like an endless plague because you will see them a lot.

Every game you will see them - It might sound crazy, but it’s true!
The other issue is they are all very 1 dimensional in their builds.
Not only are you going to see them a lot, but they are all going to be the same.

It can get very repetitive and boring to face same thing over and over again.
This is probably 1 of the reasons he wants these Classes Nerfed.

The only problem is if these Classes were to get Nerfed.
I don’t think they would be able to recover.
The deck builds are very linear so any Nerf to them would ultimately just kill them completely in my mind.

I don’t see a way to Nerf them with out making them absolutely not playable.
Out of the 4 Classes mentioned by the OP.
I think the Druid & Paladin have probably given me the most trouble out of the 4.

The Classical Core Druid Deck is a Late game sort of deck.
As a Mid-Range deck player, I can end up getting beat by them.

The Classical Core Paladin Deck is surprisingly effective against my Murloc Deck.
It’s not as great vs. my Death Knight or Demon Decks.
It’s due to the way the decks clear monsters.

The DK & Demon decks have spells cards which can summon swarming monsters which I can use to attack down big Paladin monster threat.

The Murloc deck uses spell cards to damage down enemy Big monsters.
The issue is Paladin decks can do Divine shields which take no damage from spells.
It might sound crazy, but they have put beat down on me before.

——————————

The weakest 2 Classes out of the 4 mentioned was Warrior & Rogue.
I have lost to a very specific Warrior build, but it’s not used a lot.

The Warrior build was using Reno Character & Bomb Monster.
The Monster put bunch of Bombs in my deck.

If they get the combo off, it can be very devastating.
The only drawback is the Reno build seems to be very Dust Heavy so I didn’t see the set up being used a lot against me.
I was lucky for sure!

The other very popular Warrior set up runs nonstop Taunt Monsters.
I think it’s supposed to be a Control Build with bunch of Taunt Monsters.
Mid-Range Builds are not really vulnerable to Control set ups.

The monsters I summon can get pretty beefy.
The Warrior build can’t really do enough damage to them.
The Warrior class lacks draw power as well in my opinion.
Their only chance is to have a Godlike top deck draw.

————————————

The last Class to mention is Rogue Deck.
I don’t think I have lost to it this season.
I remember some past Hearthstone seasons were Tempo Rogue was crazy strong.
This has to be 1st time in a very long time where they are doing bad.

This season - they don’t seem to have same juice!
They still have Classical Core Cards.
They are still feisty and very popular, but something seems to be missing!
I’m not complaining, though!

It is a Welcomed change for me!
I never really liked their previous cancer decks.
The Rogue decks have been pretty disgusting in the past!

I think the Rogue was borderline broken in the past.
The Rogue deck is very difficult to pilot, but if you face a master Rogue deck player.
They would pick you apart and their was nothing you could do about it.

It was extremely oppressive in the past.
I feel like the Rogue deck this season has been tone down little bit.
I felt like I had a chance to do stuff.

Should Rogue deck be Nerfed again?
Honestly, I might have to agree with OP on this one.
I don’t fully agree with other ones, but with this one maybe!

——————————

Last thing I want to mention is some of the decks I am seeing.
I saw a shift in decks when I go in High Silver League.

I think Druid, Warrior, Rogue, & Paladin are very popular from Bronze 5 to Silver 5.
BUT Silver 4 to Silver 2 seems to have a new bred of Classes being played.
I don’t think they should be Nerfed or anything, but people might want to know what I am seeing here.

1st deck I have faced is Hunter Deck.
The Dino Deck is dangerous!
They have the 1 Dino who attacks and gains attack based on Dino he pulls.
I, unfortunately, have had the pleasure of getting eaten by that Monster!
LOL - It’s funny, but it’s dangerous line you walk being Mid-range player.

2nd deck I have faced is Dragon Priest Deck.
They can skip your turn with Leggo Dragon.
Than they have Wizard who can remove or steal your monsters.
I have had some great wins and loses from that deck.

3rd deck I have faced is Direct Spell Damage Mage Deck.
They try to build up spells till they can Blast you.
Those fights are always pretty tricky as well.

4th deck I have faced is Headless Horsemen Death Knight Deck.
It’s pretty awesome and sick as well if I do say so myself.
It can be tough one to take down.

So it does seem to me like a change does seem to happen.
It is very interesting to say the list.

Out of the 11 different Class types:
I haven’t faced the below classes a lot this season.

  • Demon Hunter
  • Shaman
  • Warlock

Maybe, I will see them in Gold leagues if I ever make it there?
I don’t know!

It could also be the case that because I have been playing a lot of Demon & Shaman decks the game just hasn’t matched me up against them.
I don’t know!

Anyway, I just wanted to share my thoughts on the issue at hand.
Thank you for your time!

Idk im playing 5 diffrent classes and I never loose to paladin… except rarely when thet high roll.

I understand what you saying. But when I can consistantly rofl stomp a class on 5 diffrent classes this means the class is not over powered objectively. Palladin is streight foward. All there decks are predictable. They all revolve around buffing a minion. The decks being played just are not that great.

Decks that dont have early game board presence have issues against paladin. All you have to do is never allow them to get control of the board. This is why D5+ you see there win rate tank and way less of them. At d5+ players actually know this.

Only thing that makes since and why you wont agree with me and other top players must be you dont play decks that are balanced and have board presence early game. If you do your probibly playing warlock.

Classes I have been playing Priest Shaman Mage DK and Druid. They all effectly bully paladin.

Each can counter it. I know you said you main Spell mage, and that one counters it. For all I know, all 5 counter it.

Or, you’re playing in lower ranks than you belong to.

Most people play Meta decks, so I wouldn’t worry about them being balanced.

I play sludgelock. It’s not even on tier lists. It’s a slightly losing matchup for me, not much, 47-53%

There is no shame in losing to a Paladin Deck.
They have access to great cards this Season.

  • Great Draw Power
  • Great Swarming Potential
  • Great Mana Curve
  • Great Early Game & Middle Game Damaging Spells
  • Great Spell Counters (Divine Shield)
  • Good Buffing Potential (It’s not greatest I have seen, but still good)

Their biggest Down Fall is Direct Spell Damage & Removing Big Monsters.
Most Paladin Decks are Aggro or Middle Range builds.

They don’t really give their Hero Damage Immunity.
They don’t have great ways to remove Beefy Monsters.

You need board presence to beat Paladin deck, but it has to be right kind!
Any board presence will not work.
You need a Beefy board presence.

Death Knight have access to 4 mana monster which can potentially summon a Death Knight Skeleton with 10 - 10 stats with taunt.
It’s not crazy to see how that can cause Paladin deck to lose.

Shaman Elements have access to 3 mana monster which has 3 - 8 stats, but is permanently frozen. The fact it is frozen makes no difference because the monster can be used as block to slow down aggressive of an Aggro Paladin deck.

Mage decks have great board removal combined with direct spell damage.
They can beat a Paladin deck if they survive long enough to pull off the combo

Demon Hunters can counter Paladin decks this season as well, but it is a very tricky piloting process which needs to take place. You also have to build deck different vs. what the game recipes recommend for Demon Hunter.

I run a Hybrid Weapon build with Lifesteal for my Demon Hunter deck.
Demon Hunter class doesn’t have a great beefy early/mid range stat monster.
You can’t really stop the Aggression of an Aggro Paladin deck.

What you have to do is offset the damage being done to your hero with Lifesteal.
Demon Hunter Class has access to Lifesteal weapons and has ways of increasing the attack the heroes can do on those weapons.

If you stall out long enough, you can end up bring out some Beef.
They will be in trouble at that point.
It is very tricky process.

Obviously, you can win if with a lot of classes if you know their weaknesses and try to build deck designed around it.

I still think Paladin deck is solid.
The Paladin players have proven themselves to be formidable in my mind.
If I lose to Paladin deck, it is just GG
Well played on their part!

are you sure about that? Rekt is down there for a reason

1 Like

I dont main spell mage I was playing elemental mage for a bit when I was posting on day one the forums. I more play DK and shaman and priest right now equaly.

When i say balanced in those terms I mean the decks dont just have and mid and end game board presance and strategy. They have a early to mid and sometimes late game as well board presence and stratagy.

LOL, almost all of them counter Pally

No wonder you’re so biased.

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/drr/matchup-chart-data-reaper-report/

Filter for “Legend” instead of “Top 1k” due to sample sizes.

Clearly shows Elemental Shaman and Overheal Priest hard-counter the deck. Elemental Mage should be losing to it, so if you’re winning with it, you’re probably not in the rank you deserve. DK vs Pally matchup stats are useless. It was made during the time where there were only two DK decks on the ladder, now there’s 6.

Few of them are bound to counter it.

I dont play those decks but yes. Iv been saying 4-5 classes have decks that counter pally. If 4-5 classes have decks that counter pally. Then the class is not strong. Its just average.

Hence the tier 3 rating. Thanks for helping support my argument even further.

All my decks are home brew varations that might have simularites of some decks seen but still quite diffrent. I dont play elemental shaman at all. Might guve it a shot but I have not played it.

You are bias as well because you play sludgelock and pally eats sludge lock last time i checked. Sludge has weak early game last time i checked compaired to pally.

Not neccessarily.

We used to have, like, 9 classes viable in the meta with 1-2 decks each, now we have 8 classes viable with average of 3 decks each, so 4-5 classes having 1 deck which counter Pally make up only 4/24 = 16% of all decks that counter it - in other words, it’s broken xD

And guess what? That’s the situation now.

DK alone has 6 decks
Priest has 2
Warlock has 3 (no, I don’t care that noone counts Sludgelock, I literally proved it’s more than viable in this meta)
Rogue has 2
Druid has 4
Shaman has 5 (maybe 4 now)
Paladin has 3
DH has 2

So the average is 27/8 = 3,333 decks per class

Point proven.

Man do what you want. In the end im just afraid of what might happend to the game if pally gets nuked from exsistance. Its keeping some worse decks in check to an extent right now just like hunter was last year.

This is my opinion i got data that proves my point and your data is good too.

Pallay is keeping some realy bad late game decks in check.

Oh, don’t worry about that. Or at least, I don’t think you understood where I’m coming from.

I’m simply debating Pally is tier 1. I’m not saying it should be nerfed.

Not only did it survive 2 months strong as it is without nerfs, but it’s also underplayed due to monotone gameplay.

I think it’s safe to say it won’t get touched.

I agree is not nearly as powerfull as dk or shaman. But tier 1 hmm… unless you wana say other decks/classes are above tier 1?

Here is the point gl getting to legend with pally it aint happening as easy as other decks.

Not saying you cant but why when there are better options?

Thats a fact.

Well, beats me, I’m married to sludgelock xD While that works, I have no reasons to switch

Should be an easy climb xD

Rogue is fine. We need to delete priest and warrior. Nerf paladin, druid, pain warlock, secret hunter, elemental mage and shaman, and pirate shaman/ evolve shaman.

What?

20 characters.

If it is up to me, I say nerf Rogue Druid Shaman and Pally, all in wild.