3 new DK cards for the TITANS miniset

Multiplayer Discussion
21

I see the filler bs continues. Guess the only Class that got a mini-set is Warrior.

22

Get ready for another 1.5 years of Control Warrior being complete trash because Blizzard injected the archetype with rocket fuel and then were apparently surprised when the ever-present Control Warrior fans flocked to the rejuvenated deck, meaning Blizzard has to send it back to the shadow realm.

Warrior fans will be suffering for Blizzard’s sins.

2 Likes
23

I would like to say i disagree with this but i just can’t. I figure once they nerf Control Warlock the Control Warriors will swarm the ladder and a repeat of Summer 2022 nerfs will occur. :frowning:

24

CNE is literally worse than Marrowgar, Sargeras, and IMO Elemental Inspiration. I’d even argue that in many cases it’s even worse than The Scourge, which is already over-stat’d.

Compared to other wincon cards like Sif and Odyn, it’s also just laughable. Not only is it just straight up weaker but the deck surrounding it is also weaker. Honestly, the only way to fix rainbow is to seriously give it some very good cards because right now it lacks board clear, good uses of spending corpses (Boneguard Commander is fine but fine is about as good as it gets), doesn’t contest the board well, has no bombs in the archetype outside of CNE (again, like a 2/10 card).

It’s so weird because 10 cost cards should really be pushing to end games. There are neutral 10 drops that are better than CNE. Then you have legendaries that are cheaper and more powerful while also being less situational. I don’t know why the strategy and the card itself isn’t on the rader for support and buffing.

25

I opened a golden CNE last expansion and Signature Cage Head. How many times have I played decks with them in ranked? Maybe 10 times in over 5 months. How many times have I even got to 10 mana to and was in a position to actually play CNE? Literally 0 times, I have never actually played the card from hand in ranked even with 10 games trying the deck in Festival because the deck never gets to 10 mana or even has CNE upgraded enough to even do anything. Even in casual where I’ve actually pulled it off its just so terrible.

1 Like
26

I think they knew some people would bite on the diamond card. It’s overly priced for a cosmetic. I don’t know why, but Blizzard is terrible at gauging max value. Wait, I do know why - insane greed.

This company won’t take a risk and try to make cosmetics cheaper to gain more money in the end. It’s a proven model that works, but their greed is so high it skews their judgment. If they sell 1000 diamond Helyas at the current price, they won’t take a risk to try and sell 50,000 at 1/10 the price. It’s greed. $60 for a diamond cosmetic is nuts. It’s the price people pay for AN ENTIRE COMPLETE GAME.

As for the plague support, they missed a great opportunity. I think they just lack imagination to be honest. What the deck really needed was a board clear that uses plagues. There should have been a card that destroyed the board and removed a plague for each minion destroyed. But the dev team is just really bad at support cards later for archetypes.

2 Likes
27

I opened a golden one too and it’s just disappointing

28

Sickly Grimewalker is 3 mana, 1 unholy rune. Well, there’s 1 frost rune 3 mana undead that has finale: 2 damage to all enemies. Isn’t that a 6 mana perfect board clear?

That seems like a really good thing to me. Do that after a drum circle and you’re doing pretty good right?

2 Likes
29

I disagree, Plague DK is not about controlling the board with clear, it actually has good enough tempo up until about turn 8 to control the board with minions and apply pressure. The biggest problem that literally everybody knows is that plagues are bad because your opponent has to actually draw them. I have had many, many games where my opponents only drew 1 or 2 plagues all game despite having upwards of 16 in their deck. I even had one game against a control priest where I managed to shuffle in 20 plagues and he didn’t draw a single one until turn 11 and by then I had lost. Even in games where my opponent did draw plagues it was never really enough of a threat to actually win on their own, you still need to win with minions.

30

I’ve always found that what kills me as a Plague DK is big and/or tall wide boards. There’s no control to slow down play.

What you mentioned is exactly why Plague needs a card that slows the game down. That’s what it wants. It wants the game to go as long as possible so that you can eventually draw plagues back to back. As soon as someone flops down a big minion, you’re done unless you have Primus. You have no real removal options for big minions.

Plague DK wants to operate like a Control Deck, much like how Bomb Warrior did. It won’t be successful if it has no control and that’s why it sucks.

You can put a card in that forces all the plagues to go on top of the deck, but that would be broken. Without a way to manipulate the order of the deck, it needs a Control aspect to it because it needs the game to take as long as possible. The longer the game goes on, the better the deck will do.

1 Like
31

Well last time I checked plagues were an unholy / frost rune mechanic so there won’t be any board clears coming.

The card that slowed down the game before was Hollow Hound, but after the nerf its not really worth running in any DK decks except for esoteric crap like Hand Buff DK.

Surprisingly Plague DK is much better in Wild because it can shuffle so many more plagues in and it counters a lot of decks like Discard Warlock, Tony Druid, Questline Demon Hunter and Questline Shaman since they draw through their decks fast.

1 Like
32

Yeah, but if we get a 5 rune DK system, Plague can be a bit more flexible and can run Corpse Explosion, etc.

I think the Plagues also should have been more centered around Unholy and Blood instead of Unholy and Frost. The Rune system is really creating some problems. They had a good idea, they just implemented it a bit too unstable.

33

Way too big. Should be like, two corpses max. I’ve been trying to find ways to play that reborn that copies himself for corpses. This would be great, except is has anti-synergy because it costs so many corpses.

It should be “copy a friendly minion, if it is an undead, gain 3 corpses.”

1 Like
34

And it probably still wouldn’t see play at 4 mana lol

I think it has to be 3. It’s so restrictive.

1 Like
35

Yeah and the good versions of plague DK are already running the little metalhead. I think this is by far the best card.

36

Sickly Grimewalker gives Poisonous after you summon, which is after the Battlecry. That combo won’t work.

It would work with Wild Pyromancer, though.

1 Like
37

Right. So far, no matter what board clear combo anyone comes up with, it’s a 3 card combo minimum as far as I can tell.

Grimewalker + pyro + spell. 3 card combo board clears suck and it’s not worth its salt to run. Go ahead and put all those ideas on the shelf.

The only true combo here is Grimewalker + hero power. That gives you a 1 card 5-mana remove a minion that is consistent. Everything else is kinda meh.

The only other good combo is if you summon this with The Scourge. Maybe Grimewalker + Hound but that’s a 9 mana combo. Whirlpool at 9 mana was unplayable so that combo is entirely too slow.

38

Not taking your word for it. Gonna wait and see how it interacts.

39

If it doesn’t work that way it will be a bug. Whenever you a summon a minion is the verbiage that would make it work. After you summon a minion is a very specific interaction.

Based on the wording currently, it will work as Sigtyr is stating. You can go into the game now and test that sort of interaction.

EDIT:

Here’s the info on why (Whenever vs After)

Whenever vs After

When(ever) vs After

  • If a Hearthstone card has a triggered effect, the description nearly always includes either the word “whenever” or “when”, or the word “after”. Which of these two terms is used can have significant effect on the order of events, and hence on the outcome.

  • ADVERTISEMENT

  • When(ever)

  • If a card text uses the term “when” or “whenever” to describe a trigger, it means that the triggered effect will take place at the time the indicated action starts to take place. This means that the effect acts on, and affects, the board state as it was before the trigger took place.

    • Example: You have an LegacyIce Barrier in play, and your hero is at 2 Health. Your opponent equips a LegacyFiery War Axe and attacks your hero. Because the card text of Ice Barrier reads “When your hero is attacked, gain 8 Armor”, you first gain armor, before the War Axe hits, and the damage is taken from your Armor.
    • Example: You play a LegacyViolet Teacher, then target it with a LegacyFireball. Because the Teacher summons an Apprentice whenever you cast a spell, the Apprentice is summoned before the Fireball hits and kills the Teacher.

  • After

  • If a card text uses the term “after” to describe a trigger, it means that the triggered effect will take place after the time the indicated action has completed. This means that the effect acts on, and affects, the board state as it is before the trigger takes place.

    • Example: You have a LegacySnipe in play. Your opponent plays Mean Streets of GadgetzanBig-Time Racketeer. Since Snipe triggers after your opponent plays a minion, the Racketeer will first be summoned and its Battlecry will summon his Mean Streets of Gadgetzan"Little Friend"; after that your secret deals its damage to the Racketeer.
    • Example: You play a Whispers of the Old GodsCult Sorcerer, then target it with a LegacyFrostbolt. The card text on Cult Sorcerer states that it buffs Whispers of the Old GodsC’Thun after you cast a spell. However, the spell killed your Cult Sorcerer; after the spell is cast there is no Cult Sorcerer anymore and C’Thun will not receive a buff.

and from Blizz themselves:

https://www.hearthpwn.com/news/2187-whenever-vs-after-design-philosophy-behind

Blizz Dev Comment on Whenever vs After

Wild Pyromancer is extremely enthusiastic about playing with fire. Even if you don’t control a Wild Pyromancer when you start casting a spell, if you control one after the spell resolves, the world is going to burn. This causes some confusion, because most triggered abilities in Hearthstone occur ‘whenever’ something happens. Why do we sometimes use ‘after’ instead?

Triggered abilities in Hearthstone work like questions. ‘Whenever’ is asking ‘Hey, you are doing something. Is it the thing I care about?’ ‘After’ asks a different question. ‘Hey, you did something. Was it the thing I care about?’ ‘Whenever’ is usually the most straightforward way of implementing triggered abilities. The trigger sees you do the thing it cares about and executes its ability. Then, you proceed with whatever triggered the ability. Typically this is to your advantage: when you use Power of the Wild to give your minions +1/+1 and have Violet Teacher in play, the Violet Teacher sees you cast the spell and creates an Apprentice before the spell resolves, so you get a 2/2 Apprentice. Sweet.

However, the timing of when exactly the trigger occurs is not always obvious. Consider a trigger that says ‘whenever this minion attacks, it gains +2 Attack.’ It’s not obvious if the attack buff is gained before or after the attack resolves; a good-faith reading could be interpreted either way, particularly for people who don’t have a fine grasp on the rules. Combat is key to Hearthstone, so you shouldn’t need a fine grasp on the rules to not be surprised by it.*

This is why we have ‘after’ in our toolbox. If we made that card, it would say ‘After this minion attacks, it gains +2 Attack.’ With ‘after’ it is unambiguous that the trigger occurs after the attack, and you can plan accordingly. We prefer ‘whenever’ but use ‘after’ in cases where we need to be more clear.

There are also some cases where we have to have the trigger occur ‘after’ for targeting reasons. Wild Pyromancer uses ‘after’ because if it used ‘whenever’ its ability would trigger before the spell you cast resolved. If you were casting Frostbolt on a minion with 1 Health, the Pyromancer’s trigger would kill the minion and it wouldn’t be in play when Frostbolt resolved. We’d have to do something inelegant to solve the problem of what should happen to Frostbolt’s visual effect in that case, so we use ‘after’ instead. Triggers that care about minions being summoned also tend to use ‘after’ because if we used ‘whenever’ the minion wouldn’t be in play when the trigger resolved, which looks weird visually and would also mean that the trigger couldn’t affect the minion being summoned. For example, Addled Grizzly wouldn’t work if it said ‘whenever.’

We’ve considered changing the rule for minions with ‘after’ triggers to only occur if the minion is in play at the start of whatever triggered them, but we decided not to. The current template for ‘after’ is clear in almost all cases, and while surprise Wild Pyromancer triggers off of e.g. Mindgames are startling, they do match the Pyromancer’s text. Since the rule is consistent and the text of ‘after’ minions match their functionality, we didn’t want to change the rules to fix this particular corner case, especially since it would introduce ambiguity with the general case for ‘after’ text.

*By rule, the trigger occurs after the attack is declared but before damage. We use ‘whenever’ on triggers like Cutpurse because the trigger isn’t relevant to combat, though.

3 Likes
40

Never expect too much. Always keep the bar super low.

And that applies to new games.