Yet another POE 2 / D4 Topic - but with ideas to improve

I didn’t play the game and I don’t plan to for 1 simple reasons: how they handle deaths - i.e map is lost and/or you need to redo the whole map again. I am not saying it’s wrong how they handle it, but I am saying, that, it’s just not for me.

With that said, I do like how they handle the maps, especially how you can imbue (GGG called it juicing, I.E pumping them up full of steroids) them by adding up to like 5 or so affixes on them, to drop more of something but thus making them more difficult. It offers player a choice, of playing a normal NMD or juice it up. If you all remembered pre-season or s1-2, how NMD 80+ was DIFFICULT, where you’d get stunned like crazy, frozen, and murdered. I remember doing mercys reach at nmd 100 early on, man, it was a pain, like 8 elites in 1 small room, it took 3 of us 10 min to clear them,. and guess what, reward was, not much.

Here, you start with a sigil or pit key as how it is now, and you create currency (akin to orbs or whatever they are in POE 2) to randomly buff the sigils. By buffing them, you not only increase the monster level, but their damage, freeze, stun, and other aspects, like lower armor, or resists, in make cdr less effective, but you also increase the rewards. If it takes you 15 min to clear 1 nmd, vs 2minutes now, and you die 2-5 times, it maybe worth it, if the chance to drop stuff is 200-300% or higher quality item’s 2-3 ga chance increases by 200%, so many choices.

By offering players choice, you create variety, which is a big win.

I also dislike how itemization is done in d4. Right now, using say, Sorc, you get a 2h staff with int and crit damage for example, and you u know the 2 rolls you need to roll and then we have 1 stat we need to ideally triple crit on, therefore, for that build, everyone will have 99% same gear. That’s is boring, and only rng is range of stats.

In POE 2, you find a good base or rare, and then you use different orbs to add up to 6 rare stats and you can even re-roll some of them after adding. In way, with 6 stats., it ensures you pretty much won’t have any item that is similar to anyone else (mirror legal duping is a different topic, lol). Maybe top 10% of best items will have 4 out of 6 same stats, but still, that’s a MUCH MUCH better variety. Now people have to farm white or magic or rare items or even legendary. They also have to farm 4-6 different orb like currencies to imbue the items.

What does it mean? Well - a few things: 1. a lot more chase items 2. a lot more upgrades. 3. a lot more things to farm 4. and most and by far most importantly, seasons won’t seem so long, because when you’re having fun, time goes by faster.

I do hear those who will say that it will complicate things by alot. And, yes, it will, but remember, those stopped at t1 or never broke p230, are not going to partake in any of this anyway, and one who want this, will need to go into t3 and t4.

I guess what I am saying is, take the best parts (be inspired) about POE 2 and implement them. Kinda what they took from D2 and vastly improved on it.

If d4 is 2 on the complexity level and poe 1 is 10, poe is 8, if you bring d4 to say 5, on that scale, then I feel like most people will welcome it

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Luckily its in EA right now so alot can change and all the problems that everyone can bring up have an opportunity to get addressed in the following months. A few major issues was already fixed 3 days in and your issue also has what seems like a temporary fix at the moment in the form of teleporting to waypoints in an upcomming patch.

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I don’t know if they will ‘fix’ this because I don’t think it’s a bug, but more of a feature, to make something harder and to make maps hard commodity… But, who knows?

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Its just a decision that they made that doesn’t impact core gameplay and can very easily be overturned. The fact that they quickly implemented teleporting feature makes me think they dont consider it an important part of the game for you to fight through a respawned map. So like i said, even if they didn’t remove the respawn aspect, you can now teleport to other parts of the map instead of fighting all the way through.

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The best ideas that D4 could take from POE2 is how much better skill gems are compared to aspects or paragon nodes along with the classes just being so much deeper with so many possible combinations. You can mix and match -pretty much anything across classes and make something cool. EG: you can be a witch and use sorc gems to add flame wall to your build which synergizes good with the witch arsonist minion. Or you can go to the passive skill tree and work towards another classes buffs for you build. It shouldn’t be too hard to add to D4 because the current skill tree is so rudimentary by comparison. But I highly doubt it will ever happen.

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They would have to rework everything to do this, so it is unlikely. Plus I feel like it would lose its own identity.

The first thing they really need to do is address balance and challenge in that order. Without the first you can’t adress the 2nd.

A lot of what you mention sounds like the early Diablo 4 with Nightmare Dungeons and pre Season 4 items.

I dont like this either. The downgrade from 4 to 3 affix slots is partly responsible for the overall boring state of legendary items. But weapons in particular definitely need to have their affixes looked at and maybe rethought in terms of how they work compared to other equipment slots. I think some exclusive mechanics or crafting system like you describe would be a good idea.

They don’t need to do another rework, we are way past that at this point. But they could certainly do a better job of adding more variety and viability to classes. Frankly some builds have been a mess since the very beginning. Take summoner for instance. That build has been mess since day one. I can think of one season in a year and a half where it was actually a viable build for endgame. And even then your options were limited. I can tell my golem to attack, but not my minions. They have no commands I can give them. They are just sort of “there” and attack everything. In POE2 I can tell a sniper minion to shoot poison at an area, I can direct a minion mage to lay frost at an area, I can tell minion arsonists to throw their fire at other minions and have them explode. I can grab sorc abilities and use skeletan heads to assist my minions etc. If I’m a sorc, not only can I lay a flame wall like in D4, but I can throw a lightning area attack thru it and have my lightning carry fire as well to mobs. There is no reason why D4 can’t have these same kind of synergies. We shouldn’t have to wait for temp powers in a season to have this kind of fun when a game that is in early access has it right now as part of its base game.

Just my opinion.

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Ill just say - I caved and got the early access and Man am I enjoying it so far. It really has a Diablo 1 feel to the game, back when movement speed wasnt around and u cannot ZOOM all over the map and blow things away with a button click. Its so FUN, everything needs to be paid attention to because u will get cornered or blocked in and you will Die - in fact I have about a half dozen times already and just now about halfway through act 1.

Mainly the bosses because its all new and they can one hit you if u think you are superman and want to facetank them and not be ready to Move a little and stand in the direct path of a major slam skill. SOO many bosses already - I think act 1 eclipses all the Bosses in D4, and they are all unique and different and NO they are not loot pinatas waiting to fall like they do in D4. None of the Bosses are the same - they are all different classes that use all different skills and require you to learn their different attack. Some WIll Kill you multiple times until you figure them out.

I dont think Ill be back to play season 7 at this point D4 is a waste of my time until they fix all the current issues instead of just stacking more and more on top of each other every new season. Ive had more fun in 4 days Ive played Poe2 than the entire time D4 has been around - And I somewhat liked D4 for a while - but the clear winner for me is Poe2 at this point. Try it if you dont believe me, its not for everyone but if u take off your rose colored Diablo glasses and play the game and dont compare to Diablo you will see how much they care about that game - patches drop almost daily to address ISSues that should be taken care of.

Maybe it Just a fresh new game that Im finding very enjoying with all new content and difficulty that makes it a challenge. I havent got to maps yet so I cant comment on that.

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Hellll yeee! I have been no-lifing PoE2 this week, and while I generally hate minion builds in ARPGS…the ones I’ve seen and what you described look well beyond what I’ve experienced in the past. I might actually have to give one a serious go after I’m done experimenting with this Pathfinder.

I honestly wouldn’t even know where to being with fixing D4, but the largest thing is lack of build variety. They really need to revamp the tree, add a ton more skills, better itemization to alter said skills in more enjoyable ways. But seeing as they have trouble balancing the paltry number of skills they currently have, I don’t see that happening ever.

How far in on your minion build are you Olsek?

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The bosses man! All of them are unique and memorable, even the sub-bosses that would be throwaways in most cases all have a unique look and mechanic. You’re in for a treat in A2/A3…some of the coolest fights I’ve ever seen in an ARPG. It’s not something I would have thought you could pull off in this genre.

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Witch Minion Master all the way here - and man its soooo good compared to D4 Necro - all Ill say about that …

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What struck me was the difficulty. Frankly I haven’t seen a game with this kind of difficulty RIGHT OFF THE BAT in a VERY long time. It’s how games used to be before they became watered down into the mindless zoom fest that we have now. There are posters on the POE forums almost begging and pleading for the devs to nerf it and make the game easier at the start. I REALLY hope the devs stick to their guns and don’t cave to the blasters who just want an easy game to zoom thru while watching T.V

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SO true - that’s exactly how D1 felt - remember when FRESH MEAT used the scare the bejeezuz out of you at 1am with all the light out… Thats about every boss so far Ive ran into in Poe2… hahaa

im - Hellzwraith#0237

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It’s truly some of the most annoying and frustrating “whine” I’ve ever seen. If they had done literally any research, it was made abundantly clear this is a different game. I don’t see GGG caving too much…but I am worried they cave just enough to ruin the magic that are boss fights right now. They all felt amazing on my first playthrough, like if I died I goofed up a mechanic. It’s rewarding overcoming that, but I know the en masse flock that came into the game are not the type that enjoys needing to put in any sort of effort.

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I’m in Act2. Just defeated that hard boss in the mining area (after three tries) before the server went down for maintenance. I would do fine until she started chasing me and swinging that fire thing around and killing me with one hit. I don’t have extra speed on my boots so I had to time perfectly WHEN I dodge rolled so she wouldn’t smack me with it when I stood up after the roll.

Every boss has been that type of adventure. I can usually kill bosses that summon buddies in one try because I can easily kill the packs and convert them into extra minions. But ones that fight you alone I usually need a few tries to nail down.

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Yeah, that spin attack she did was one shotting my Warrior the other day even haha.

What’s weak about it, are most of the complaints are from people mostly stuck in act 1 or not much further. If they stuck it out, put a little time into crafting etc etc, they’d see how much it picks up.

I’m in maps on my PF right now and now have like 47% move speed, my gameplay in general feels faster and more crisp, mobility being one of my main defenses on that char. Point being, it falls into a PoE1 type of power fantasy where you can start clearing giant waves of mobs…but it’s still very engaging and you still get destroyed if you’re not paying attention.

Side note, I probably have some low lvl move spd boots if you want them when the servers back up. Add me as Staranger when servers are back up if any of you want.

Another thing that they are forgetting is games are easier the second and third time you play through them. Once the seasons start these bosses will be old hat and no one will be complaining about dying at the first boss before even getting to the first town.

Well you’re in for a treat with the next couple of bosses - especially the final one.

I think the main areas so far are fine but these bosses definitely need to be toned down about 25%.