World boss hp bar - x it

PC General Discussion
1

I’m sure the devs have tossed around ideas about how to make the world boss last longer than it takes for it to full spawn.

I started playing another game and they have “bosses” and sometimes depending how many people are at these bosses the “hp bar” does a times method…

Got me thinking, it would be nice if d4 world bosses would have a x bar per the number of players in the area.

Meaning world boss 1 spawns and theres 4 people in the area it would show the world boss hps as x4 and as you kill 1 of its life bars it would go down to x3, and to x2 and so on.

That would really add some life to those world bosses.

Maybe they could build off that and at 50% of the start of the hp bar it went enraged and instantly targets the closest barb and deletes it! I dont mean kill i mean deletes the character from the game! mawhahw (okay thats over the top) haha

2

The PTR made them beefier. Not sure if it was more damage mitigation, more health, or a mix of both, but they definitely didn’t die in 1 second. So at least S5 has that going for it.

3

The main problem with the Bosses, whether the World ones or the Pit ones, is not so their HP but the fact that the fight mechanisms are not very interesting. But, sure, when you wait 5 min for a WB to spawn, it is better if the fight lasts at least more than a couple of seconds. I thought their HP had already been increased for S4. Will see if there is any significant change in S5.
I always do WB when playing. Just stand there watching some players trying to do “funny tricks”. No need to fight. Just wait a couple of second and pick up anything valuable. Managed to get a couple of Stygian Stones. The 5 favours are also good to get.

4

Not going to lie I’ve done this on newer characters that just got into WT3 or 4. Easy loot.

5

Unless they made it x10,000, the world bosses would still continue to die in seconds. Unless someone with a broken build wasn’t there. Then the world boss would never die.

6

Plenty of broken builds during the PTR, still took a couple minutes to kill.

7

At first, I would circle around, start warming up, get ready for the fight. Would not even have time for a single hit. Don’t even try anymore.

1 Like
8

That’s good news. Maybe they added a damage limiter. Because I was also hearing about some broken PTR builds putting out trillions of damage. Hope they didn’t just buff their hp making them unkillable for those of us who don’t hyper max builds. :smile:

1 Like
9

The problem was never the boss’ HP, it was and still is the absurd amount of damage we do. You see, here’s the thing: The more they jack up our damage, the more they have to ramp up HP pools. It’s the ascending version of the death spiral. The more they jack up the HP, the more damage we need to do to have a chance of beating it within the timer, and no, making it take as long to kill as a WoW raid boss isn’t exactly fun either.

If they hadn’t gone full burrito on us and put in so many multipliers that everything outside of the pit dies when we fart they wouldn’t be needing to do this. And I guarantee you they’ll have to do it again. And again. And again. All because they keep making the same mistake they did with Diablo 3, which is asinine scaling. You cannot have this many player damage multipliers and ever have world content be as difficult or even near as difficult as other endgame content or you end up locking out the content (virtually all of it) from non-meta/FotM builds.

It’s the demon hunter UE6 problem all over again. They have to scale everything because of the multipliers and in order to keep power relative to the “new” scaling whenever they knock it up they have to bump up the multipliers again or the builds suck. The way they’re dealing with the multipliers and scaling is neither novel nor is it really all that enjoyable. Endgame content is out of reach for anyone not using at least a B-tier build while non-endgame content is deemed so trivial that it might as well not even exist. The two extremes are brought upon by abysmally terribad balancing and an apparent inability to grasp the simple concept that multipliers that are full-on multiplicative instead of mostly or all additive means that the results we’re seeing are what we’re going to get. And it only continues to get worse until they do a full rebalancing of the entire game. And they’re quickly approaching a point where if they don’t do just that, it’s going to be even worse than D3 currently is. Much worse.

3 Likes
10

The method to make certain encounters hard is to normalize players to an extent. This means while having all BiS gear at LVL 100 with maxed Glyphs will definitely give you a performance advantage, you are not going to one shot the World Boss. In the same vein, a LVL 50 character waltzing into WT4 with Sacred Items would have their stats padded and brought up as to not be a burden and a carry.

This method allows for a lot of fine-tuning and prevents World Boss one-shots since damage etc. is normalized (both taken and dealt). HP pools are affected in this (mostly to the positive). Please note that this does not negate progression and power creep but rather simply helps control it.

If you want to see a more extreme version of this in action, you can look to how Infernal Legion Raids are handled in Lost Ark.

11

My problem with their perception of scaling is that they see it as something to solve long term instead of prevent within (mostly) an operable range

Like, pick an acceptable range, and try operate things within that range of stuff

No game has ever worked, heck no system has ever worked when it’s designed to “serve” 2-digit or 3-digit and 12-digit numbers simultaneously at the same time

Accept the limit and pick a reasonable range, even games which are considered perfectly balanced aren’t perfectly balanced outside their scope of operating. They’re balanced WITHIN SCOPE of operation

Wanna see how truly unbalanced a game like Starcraft is ? - make a map with no high-ground, no valleys, no ramps, nothing, then go and see Zerg winrate on that :smiley:

I mean the first rule of paradox is => only shapelesness is unlimited… If wanna have a game that operates with a shape ?, gotta do some limits

Same with D4, pick a reasonable range of operation (30-100 on lvl1 30k-million on lvl100) and try scale/design things to fit within those ranges

Some passives proc and self-stack too often ? - reduce the “fertile ground” for that to happen

Try reduce mob numbers, or at least unnecessary mob numbers, try experiment with summoners, try experiment with mobs that deny lucky hits (whichever you try/decide be that), try experiment with elites that are resistant to critical hits and try experiment with Brutes that resist Overpower, stuff like that

Embrace limit of operation i.e. embrace SCOPE where game works as intended

Can’t make everything work, but can make selectively the “battleground” to offer some dance, and b.t.w.

It is the better decision to do/balance/restrict things THAT WAY instead of introduce some kind of a weird “hard cap” when things get out of control long before that

1 Like
12

I agree and disagree all at the same time. Now the reason I say this is because I agree that they keep increasing the HP numbers due to our ever increasing damage numbers, to the point of absurdity. However I disagree in the fact that damage and HP numbers don’t matter, they never have.

It’s the casino gimmick of flashing lights and noises, that’s all it is. People are attracted to big numbers. I myself am attracted to percentages. I look at health bars more then I do the damage numbers flying all over the screen. How much percent does one of my attacks do against a boss? That’s my bigger concern. I wouldn’t care if they number crunched and my damage numbers were reduced 10 fold, if I’m still doing 5-10% damage per hit (or whatever) it’s perfectly fine.

All that being said, you are absolutely correct that this is brought on by their horrible calculations of how damage should work. This problem becomes worse the more patches we get that just add more power on top of it. Numbers are ultimately pointless though.

13

They really need to finish stablizing itemization and flow of the game (e.g. how long should things take at a ratio level) before messing with HP numbers. Even things like potions too until recently to catch up to the new itemization.

Otherwise we simply continue the cycle of buffing damage then buffing monster HP then buffing damage, and so on until none of the numbers make sense anymore.

If you think about the deeper problems, how is any common sense player with even competent mathematics supposed to translate a weapon with base damage of a few thousand, a few multipliers here and there and suddenly we have billions of damage? None of this makes sense. Even if I double 3k damage 10 times I’m still not in the billions yet and out of aspects and legendary nodes.

I understand the player attraction to big numbers, but at some point if we are at 5 or even 10 commas/decimal points it becomes nonsensical.

14

Maybe there is just no desire from Blizz to make the game balanced for all or at least most of the builds. I was reading the forum at the season start and it was all about the new meta builds. When playing, you check the builds around you and they are almost all meta. Maybe most players just want to be able to fart (I liked the expression) and kill everything around them. Makes them feel powerful. They just need in addition to that a game content where they can push their builds to their limit. They have the Pit for that.

The numbers are meaningless. They are limitless. See how aroused some players become when their fav streamer do billion damage hits in the PTR.

15

The Devs are clueless. Have no idea what Diablo was and is… These Boss Fights are a joke… the game is being dumbed down even further, made even easier…

I do not get it. A blind one handed monkey can get a character to level 100.

Spiritborn, hahaha, we need a monk alright.

16

Big numbers work only when there’s some context

Oh sheez that thing hit Lillith for 2 miliion ?, whoa dude that was awesome and perfectly placed

  • THAT I can understand

I can’t understand having 8-digit numbers appear and disappear 10 times a second and people being “excited” about that… And even then - say once in a while a bigger number just “flashes” for a part of a second (say 10 digit instead of 8)

A => Will you notice it ?
B => Will you register/remember it ?

Can’t have it both ways:

Determinism & Intent => Impressiveness
Chaotic big numbers popping all the time => ?? :person_shrugging:

Just find a way to bring back (or introduce if wasn’t) at least SOME determinism in game => I intended that attack, stacked it, prepped it, decided a particular target to suffer, that was “whoa” moment right there

Just “farting” billions 10 times a second ?, what’s so exciting about that ? :slight_smile:

1 Like
17

Except they’re not. The numbers lie in the multipliers. As long as we have the myriad multipliers like we do, the numbers are just going to reach absurdity that much quicker. The numbers themselves matter little, with one very glaring exception: computational costs. As numbers and HP pools get super sized, so to do the computational costs. Remember how D3’s higher greater rift levels have all that lag? It’s the computations and the sheer number of them. In high concurrency situations, that adds up to a very unpleasant experience. Numbers do need to be lopped, by a lot. And I do mean a lot, if for no other reason than human readability and lowered computational costs.

The problem with continually raising numbers on HP pools is that not every build is going to fare well in that scenario. In fact, most don’t. Only the most powerful builds end up being chosen because that’s the only real way to progress, and that’s just pathetic design and even worse balancing. If the current developers can’t math properly and balance class and spec combinations to a much narrower range, then they need to go and make room for those that can. Math is the ultimate determiner in this kind of game and if those doing the balancing just don’t have the necessary skills, they shouldn’t be in the positions they’re in, period.

18

It’s because the “good” builds in the game are broken and just 1 shot everything even world bosses. They’d have to buff the other builds if they buff world bosses.