I just don’t get it. There’s been 5 seasons of tweaks, and however many patches before that, but there’s still never parity between the classes and usually none between builds within a class. I feel like by this point there should be 3 or so builds per class that perform at a top level, and each class should be about as good as the next. Or am I missing the point, and the wild swings in class strength are intentional to get people to meta-chase?
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I think they did a good job with Rogue this season. While one build definitely stands out for Infernal Hordes, other builds are more effective for different endgame content. When it comes to class balance, there’s always going to be a meta build or class that everyone chases. I was hoping the lower stats in the expansion would help fix class balance, but after seeing the PTR, I was completely wrong. Plus, we’re no longer getting mid-season balance patches, so I’m not sure if they’ve given up on class balance or not.
Well let’s take a look. S0 was whatever, S1 brought about nerfs. S2 brought about buffs. S3 tweaked those buffs and altered builds. S4 reworked the entire itemization system which caused its own set of issues. S5 is finishing up the itemization rework. S6 is yet again messing with the itemization.
So between all that you expect there to be any balance when they can’t even get their items to where they want them, all the while altering skills and aspects? This isn’t defending Blizzard mind you, it’s just showing that it would be nearly impossible to do what you’re asking for given all the things they’ve been changing.
Now moving forward, with all these changes behind us, hopefully we can get some semblance of balance, but it’ll take a good while. I’d say it’ll be better by the time the next expansion comes (if it comes). Then that expansion will screw it up again, rinse repeat until several years later and you might see better balance.
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Oh it is much worse than you think it is. 
I mean this isn’t even math, it is just “using the number you said you would” 
also yes STILL NOT FIXED, that was from the PTR before s5.
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As much as I cry for balance, as a developer myself, making a feature rto work across multiple teams, is not easy.
Imagine doing that on a game as complex as D4, it’s hell. If you are working on a spaghetti architecture, spaghetti codebase, spaghetti design, that’s even worst.
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I don’t understand why they keep nerfing strong builds, personally. Twisting Blades used to be very strong, then they gutted it. Why? Current Rogue builds are way stronger than Twisting Blades ever was, so why was it nerfed? Why does it remain nerfed despite other builds being even more OP?
Ball Lightning Sorc is another good example. It was crazy strong, then it got nerfed. But now Lightning Spear is even better than Ball Lightning was. So why was Ball Lightning nerfed? Having “meta builds” that rotate every season is stupid.
What they should do is strive to make every build powerful. As a player, you should be able to pick whatever core skill fits the archetype fantasy you’re looking to play and run with it. No matter what core skill you choose to build around, the end result should be an incredibly powerful character.
Leave the builds that are currently strong alone and go look at underperforming builds that are relatively weak to make them stronger. That is how you achieve balance eventually. Constantly having tectonic shifts in power from one ability to another is a good recipe for never getting there.
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I think Sets made it much easier to balance builds in Diablo 3. Everyone was using the same base stats / multipliers so there was a lot less variance.
I am not advocating for Sets! I do not want Sets in D4.
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At this point I suspect some of it is intentional. Hearing about some broken build will get players on the fence about playing a season to jump back in.
That said, with so many combinations it’s impossible to balance them all. I’ve never seen a game that tries to give so many choices ever work. Which is why they come out with things like sets. Which I suspect is why they are pushing for a bunch of uniques on every build. They will basically be defacto sets in the end.
…because developers are not skill workers, also they must follow orders from the top.
Is not rocket science to make balance in this game…but they shoot own knees non stop by doing too much complexity. Paragon board is a joke, Skill three has low influence for game strategy, too many affixes in gears, strange ideas like reinventing wheel…
Yea less variables to worry about with sets. You know pretty much exactly how items will interact with each other with very little wiggle room.
I also agree I do not want sets either.
Why? Because there are so many variables and combinations of factors.
If Ball Lightning stayed strong for 3 seasons no one would ever discover Lightning Spear. The nerfs and buffs are here to make it so players find something else to kill monsters with. Rather than just stick to the ol’ reliable.
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What’s the right phrase for a product whose developers haven’t mastered / wrestled it into submission & haven’t tested it adequately to do so… “not ready for market”. Or: unofficial crowdfunded Early Access mode. It’s just that the terminology hasn’t been adopted, bc the board of directors never approved it & it was probably never suggested. It’s not in the culture. But apparently, the actual mode has made it into the culture. Hence OP’s umbrella query, which by now covers hundreds (probably) of bizarre interactions… which will probably keep multiplying until some threshold of ‘learning’ and ‘management’ is met.
Added: I would’ve paid into Early Access, of course. Big fan (of D2, the hook).
I was just gonna say too many moving parts but yeah… ^^ this
The approach and prioritization is totally reversed
- Spectacle and first impression over healthy gameplay
- Powercreep over providing a variety of options
- Designing balance based on expected outcome (i.e. final result)
- Focus and care about “final form” looks and final results at the cost of gradual progression
e.t.c.
It’s just everything’s reverse and backward in approach which makes things in return feel quite unnatural. It’s almost like a college/uni lab-home/work where measurements themselves get adjusted to look closer/believable to the expected goal instead of the final result being calculated based on measures taken in practical lab work 
The whole game feels like that “figure out this reverse engineered route and find the missing pieces to the promised land” lol, which arguably is one if not the main source of frustration IMO
It’s like as if the game’s providing gameplay based on expected outcome and then “measuring” your pace based on that at all times possible
If we perceive the game as a castle/rock to climb it’s behaving as if the game is providing jetpacks and long ropes that lead right to the top (or somewhere there overall) instead of just regular climbing gear overall
IDK, I really just don’t like that approach 
Here is exactly how and why it happens
-The patch gets released with one or two builds that completely trivialize the game
-Some very mathematically talented players in the eastern hemisphere find and optimize these builds and develop a script to allow them to farm bajillions of gold per/hour while they do anything else.
-Several streamers will discover these very powerful RMT turbo builds, and make videos about it as if it is their own idea. This generates hype for them, and for this game. All hype is good hype they believe.
-Their fans, seeing the massive numbers these builds can make decide to copy these builds as well. There is a feeling of community amongst the content creators and their fans. They play the gold farm script builds manually, and believe this is fun
-The forums get busy, again good publicity. It reflects strong player engagement.
-Nothing gets changed or fixed, despite how crucial these cracked builds are to the gold farmers.
-Next patch comes around and last seasons gold farming build is put in line. The cycle starts again, because someone accidentally added an extra 0 to the multipliers that enable this seasons gold farm build.
It’s not difficult, it’s actually super easy. This dev team does not “want” balance.
why don’t you enlighten us and let us know what they have to do that is so easy to balance all the classes?
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Their job. 10 chars.
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So you have absolutely no clue how to balance the classes. How to you then reach the conclusion its easy? do you make games? are you a software developer? what is your amazing insight that lets you declare it is easy?