Current system = 10% damage for each skill point in a damage skill.
would you rather
Your rend on barbarian deals 10% more damage
or
You have challanging shout, granting you 40% damage reduction for 8 seconds on a 17 or so second cd which equals about 20% constant damage reduction.
the skill tree isnt made equal which is why when my bonespear deals 4x damage but i die to one hit i wont want to do that. Probably no one will. Because when you see “meme builds” in other games, they atleast work. Its not like a meme build is “your spender kills things but not really and you die super fast”. Trust me when i say that when the builds that are good exist are fewer than the builds that are bad, the game stagnates.
Fine i hope Blizz give you an offline option, where you can modify your character to godlike Proportions, cause that is what you want. I bet after a day you would quit cause that becomes boring fast. But no1 besides yourself has to deal with you.
Don’t know how your coming up with 120 skill points though. Even if you had +skills on every item i don’t see how your accounting 60 skill points off items. From my understanding you get 10 skill points from the renown system and 50 from lvling. Its 36 skill points to max 6 skill saying you take an ultimate. 42 if you don’t take an ultimate. Thats not counting your passives.
I don’t think it is as powerful as you are saying and may of those skills that are good or fine with just one point are better with their 1-2 nodes branching off of them thereby turning them from one-point wonders to two- or three- which is pretty good.
I think Barbarian shouts got mentioned, so I’ll go into those just as an example
Rallying Cry … 1 point gives fury and increased regen for 1 point … not that powerful, but enough to make 1 point nice … but 2 points makes it a CC break … this is probably one of the better low investments and already how people are using it even with the 6 skill slot limit as they invest points elsewhere
Challenging Shout … 1 point for damage reduction, but it gets even better with more points. The upgrade nodes off it are ranging from OK to great depending on your build, so regardless of skill slots you’re either likely investing into those points as part of an overall investment that’s also happening elsewhere, or you’re not
War Cry … it’s just a straight damage buff … but then you can put another point to have it trigger berserk … and one more if you like either the extra bonus with lots of enemies around or the fortify.
Then we look at the up-time for these shouts. That is going to require some investment in more skill points into the passive, 10% duration per point, and or other affixes from gear for cooldown reduction.
There is the heal as well, but it’s not game-breaking and now we’re again talking about additional point investment of 1 per each shout (3 minimum) and 2 just to get to 1% max hp heal per sec. That’s 5 of your skill points, no small investment, to have the bare minimum on the shouts, with bad uptime, and minimal healing.
To do more with them, it’s going to quickly start to snowball above that 5 point investment.
You can run into the same with the Brawler skills and the Weapon Master skills. A lot of the true impact from having them comes from the overall investment in their upgrade nodes and/or related passives.
yeah but then you also include ironskin, groundstomp, all of the ultimates, all of the mobility, all of the synergies between these. All of this is worth more than 3% more damage on bleeding targets for example, making the choice obvious.
and of course im talking mainly about the “passive” buffs that you just press, its hard to run a good deathblow with a good impale for example. But the thing im saying is that there is no point in atleast just touching the buffs slightly. Warcry for example, one point is waaaay more than 10% damage on a skill, no reason to avoid it.
what i would choose to do is irrelevant.
what is relevant is that i should be able to do as i please with the points allocated and not be robbed due to some arbitrary restriction that dictates i can’t use more of 6 at any time.
i honestly don’t know how many more different ways i can say this.
the effectiveness of what i want to do is irrelevant, what is relevant is that the option is there to do what i i want with my build.
if i want to use 7 abilities and allocate my 20 skill points into those specific 7 according to preference, i should be able to use all 7.
if i want to allocate all my 20 points into just 6 (and thus adhere to the 6 slot restriction) i should be able to do that too.
having the option to pick one or the other as a matter of preference is a good thing.
you prefer the latter? fine go ahead, but don’t sit here and tell me that if i choose the former, i shouldn’t be allowed to, because my points are spent as much as yours are.
Look dude, no one agrees with you and you’re one of the few who believe that… so tell yourself whatever you need to tell yourself. Have yourself a day.
nah your way off here, the shouts arent taken because they are strong on their own. They are taken cause of a certain Synergy Aspect, that gives rage generation based on the amount of shouts you socket. Which is a very powerful effect, cause people already reduced their cooldowns to levels where the shouts were almost always up
Let’s keep it accurate so we stay intellectually honest for this good-faith conversation.
Each of those skills takes 1 point each. You are trading off far more than 3% extra damage to a bleeding target if you take all of those in your example.
but you just said that having 1 in each 20 skills is a trash build. how are you now turning on a dime and telling me what i want is godlike characters?
i mean, sure i do, but that has nothing to do with the discussion.
you guys can’t have your cake and eat it too.
you can’t tell me that distributing my points terribly (1 in each 20 options) and at the same time tell me that would be OP.
You can try it for yourself. With 50 points you have way more than enough to pick all of the amazing abilites and upgrades while skipping out on less useful passive nodes.
And dont get me wrong i get what your saying, its just with the current skill tree it isnt possible.
Yes and no. The fury gen and CC break are nice for dealing with Barbarian’s Fury decay and obvious use of CC break. Damage reduction is quite nice when you have to stay in melee with a boss that doesn’t just die (though they did crumble quickly with some builds), and the damage bonus is very nice.
As far as your specific scenario … up-time is a factor in that. If I’m using them for synergy with the legendary affix … well, I just took up a legendary affix slot AND now I want higher up-time on my shouts so I can reap the rewards better for that affix. Otherwise, I’ll reap those rewards far less than someone else who does do that. The trade-off exists.
You said the point of diablo was making broken godlike characters earlier and no, distributing them poorly would be bad, but you wont do that, as your goal is a strong character and therefore you will choose all the good skills and none of the bad. These choices are obvious which in turn leads do less choice.
well tbf there’s plenty of people that agree with me, you just have to scroll up.
the fact you and those 2 other guys have the collective brain capacity of a single gold fish is not my problem, nor does it make you correct.
having a majority doesn’t equal truth.
if 3 people come and tell me that murder is fine and morally acceptable and i say its not, who is right?
the 3 idiots because they have the majority vote, or me?..
I look at it all the time. There are several builds where I’m a few points short (oh well). There are several builds where I’m a 1-2 skill slots short (aggravating).
They could easily remove the skill slot cap and create greater incentives for more heavily investing in the skills and then we’d be in a better place. Not investing more than one point giving you that “ugh, but I really want to” feeling should be the goal regardless of the number of skill slots, but having it enables us to not need the cap on skill slots.
The issue you’re talking about simply exists in the current incarnation with 6 skill slots. So I’m saying they should fix it regardless, and then having fixed that they’d be removing the impediment to unrestricting skill slots.
Yes you are absolutly correct and if they change it so that investing does equal a higher gain then yes, it would work. But thats just not how it is right now.
and i’ll stick to that point.
i am not the one saying a poor build would make my character OP. you guys are, or at least that Dusty guy just said that… why did he say that? i dunno, ask him.
my point was that you can’t sit there and tell me my objectively terrible build would also make my character OP. that’s a massive contradiction.
But if you come and say murder is morally right and 3 people say its not, who is right?
The idiot who thinks hes smarter than the rest, or the majority?
Trying to balance the Skills better in each category, so you are not pigeonholed in taking said Synergy, cause its the option that surpasses everything else.
