Wasn’t talking about playstyle or individual gameplay
Was talking about design and risk-taking of designing in the game
And if you read more carefully it was a reply intended to counter-argument specifically this statement:
So what do you prefer ?, accepting that a/RPGs are “hamster wheels” and potentially accepting the removal of WT3 cause “noone would bat an eye”, or taking a risk to make it more relevant and not accepting that particular statement of “hamster wheel” design of games (and doing something about it) ?
Go ahead and reply the complete discussion (if you reply to people’s statements)
This is overly simplistic imo.
Especially considering the popularity of PvP games where challenge is usually build-in by default due to the players bringing the challenge.
It does seem like game devs are afraid of the players though. They don’t dare offering a challenge in many cases. Just not the same as players not wanting it.
Absolutely. It’s quite crazy to me how they decided to completely change everything instead of just putting more content to the 75-100 experience of the original game. The vast majority of players liked launch D4 as far as I can remember outside of the post lvl75 experience. Launch D4 was fun, and at the time it was deemed a success. Then Season 1 happened.
Just to add a bit more into that. At the time, everyone was asking for more bosses/capstone dungeons. The question was why there’s only 2 capstone dungeons and then at the very end Lilith?? Capstone dungeons used to be cool because if your build sucked, you couldn’t beat them. So, you had to either farm for better gear, optimise your build or just be skilled. These dungeons were an incentive to find better gear and craft a better build. Elias was at lvl70 so there was a massive gap of 30 end game lvls without any incentive to gear up since Lilith was The pinnacle boss at lvl100.
The other thing everyone was talking about was the skill twig. It was clearly lacking. All branches being always one or the either for a game like this was a major issue. Almost a year after release and this is not even a thing of concern right now, apparently because the target audience has changed.
in fact when things get complicated people start complaining;
yep gamers changed quite a lot, and in a bad way; too much spoiled and lazy;
it’s not rare to see people willing to pay others to level up or farm things; weird world we living in
Because this is a Diablo and not a souls game. In diablo, the character has to be strong and overpowered to take down thousands of monsters. That’s diablo.
Besides, it’s not too easy for a casual gamer. Only for people who spend their whole lives witting Diablo like these streamers plague who playing 18 hours a day.
OP is upset people cleared T200 in PTR where you basically got everything endgame for FREE with the exception of some tempering manuals that needed to be farmed. The players that obtained those manuals also were able to clear T200. That’s the natural progression of the F’ing game. You get loot, you upgrade your gear, masterwork it, temper it, and then you beat the game. That’s just sound logic.
Okay, bad gamer? That’s how things work. Good luck when season starts, bud. The level of progression to match the PTR will be drastically slower. Meaning, clearing T200 will probably happen towards the end of the week rather than in the 1st few days.
I was on ptr for 3 days before I determined that I had seen enough. Wasn’t even playing barb/nec/sorc
After ptr ended:
Easier to cap armor
Easier to cap resistance
Gambling with obols buffed with 925 always
More obols buff
More Veiled crystal buff
More cinder buff
More boss mat buff
Means faster than ever to get geared out.
Edit. Ptr really didn’t have a vast trading market like live will either.
Edit2. Rob thinks they need to buff pit by 10x health to not be easy.
A season is only three months long. Ideally, the game should allow the majority of players to reasonably outfit their builds, and make a decent showing on the endgame event. That endgame event should scale so only the very best players can come close to finishing the upper-most levels.
I guess you werent here for AoZ when everyone but streamers was getting destroyed. WE need AoZ or something like it to return after being fixed. I havent tried pit yet but its promising. They could redo it later with 500 levels for example.
PPL will quit a game that has 0 challenge which is why S3 ended after about 2 weeks.
I’m sorry but the truth is after that original nerf after Season 0, the two guys I blasted the game with back then haven’t been back. I started a clan with them because we were having so much fun and then poof, they’re gone and I’ve been playing solo ever since.
So, this argument that the game is made for casuals and all that is nonsense. If it were, I’d still have a frickin’ clan.
On another note, I’ve never beat Lillith because I don’t play OP builds. Gonna change that next season because I’m going Summon Necromancer and going to follow all the guides to a tee, because I want to be a pro too that thinks the game is too easy.
I don’t understand this mentality. In almost every game I’ve played there are optimal builds that make your character more powerful and effective. Typically following build guides will get you the most survivability and power. If you find that boring then play a build that’s more fun to you.
The issue is when game mechanics, especially bosses, don’t compensate for these optimized builds. My HOTA barb stomps Lilith through her phases. I don’t mind it because I found the graphics buggy on her one shot mechanics for my rogue. I also don’t mind it because there is no appropriate reward for that added difficulty.
The crux of the matter is that difficulty/challenge without reward is pointless other than e-peen. I play RPGs to improve my character. If killing a boss doesn’t give me a shot at that I fail to see the point of killing the boss. I’m not here to impress other players, I’m just here for me.
I should have added the /sarcasm at the end for that last bit.
But I am going to run Summon Necromancer though because Rogue’s (my main class) can’t do the Uber bosses that are coming in Season 4 or even make it deep into the pit. The point is, to play at the top levels requires OP builds because otherwise it isn’t worth it.
I was fine running Duriel and what not until now but next season he’ll be a no go unless I switch classes and go with a top build. I’m just adapting to the game.
They don’t make hard games anymore. Especially live service games that rely on MYX to keep a constant stream of revenue coming in. Fortunately for us D4 players the cash shop is completely optional and does nothing to contribute to player power as has become the norm in most mobile based games.
Even other games that don’t rely on MTX aren’t really that hard once you learn how to play them and the only way to enable any real challenge is to handicap yourself by not levelling, spending attribute points or wearing the worst possible gear.
Try those things if you are looking for a challenge. Wear blue gear, take only the basic skills, equip no paragon glyphs, don’t use potions and report back with your Uber Boss experience.
I look at it like this; I want to be able to beat the majority of the game without too much effort, but want rare mobs ad bosses to pose a challenge.
Early on, prior to having my basic build, there should be a risk of death, or even multiple deaths, even from trash mob groups. I should have to play smart, and not rush everything. Later when I am geared, trash should just melt, and it should be the bosses that I worry about. I am not phased by even a dozen deaths, if the mechanics will allow me to eventually get a kill, however, when the bosses have too many things going on, and I just can’t get past something, I will just move on.
I’m in my mid 50’s, and hate it when a game is so fricking twitch based, or has so much nonsense going on that I can’t do it. That’s why I prefer a game with more difficulties. Let the chads do the uber bosses on max hell mode, but make sure the rest of us mortals can get the kill on something less maddening. I should be able to complete the entire game at my skill level, as should all players, from the super casual, to the super sweaty.
