Why did we get another diablo 3?

PC General Discussion
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P2W is an excuse … This is diablo, arpg, not your mmorpg. Trading/Mfing the same area and finding gear is actually exciting. People don’t have the same enjoyment from those same mechanics in other games.

Also, there is always P2W, I can simply go pay someone to get my account to my desire and farm whatever. There will always be ways to P2W, just removing such features to lessen is it just an excuse. Removing such iconic and enjoyable features to many that represent the game for that stupid reason of “p2w” is dumb, just don’t not participate in it if you don’t want to. Other way around, people don’t have that choice.

There are ways where you would’ve had a better argument, for example, if we had a more advanced pvp system, guild wars, etc. then that would be more understandable, that would suck for a PVP group to constantly win but to remove it for a game that is known for it’s repetitive MF runs/trading/etc. is weird.

What does other people doing something have to do with you? These are things that can and should totally not affect you. Go play solo self found. There are already a good number of people and communities that go ssf because they feel they want a bigger challenge and/or feel they have completed everything already which is why the 20 year old game only needed an update of new items/maps/etc. NEW THINGS TO DO because with 20 years old game, people had more than enough time to have found every single item and tried every single build in the game if they wanted to.

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You clearly can’t see the cracks forming already in the game.

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Wrong, there are a huge bunch of players that strictly do not use jsp and have communities in other boards/forums or just in game trading. This is another reason where people like you contradict yourself on what you think makes a trading economy bad.

What does the majority of people liking trading and their reasoning have to do with you or others that disagree with the feature? You can simply not participate in trading. Trading is essential in a MMO imo. D2 is what made arpg MMO popular and out there in the genre list. It is one of the bare barebones of what made the game great, not because it was only good in its time.

As for third party, every game will have hacks/bots/etc. to make it an extremely unfair and lame excuse of a gamer to cheat in the game. It’s not up to us but up to the team to get good anti cheat and counter it.

This is not just a d2 issue, d3 openly promoted multiclient after many many people asked about sandbox multiclients and they said it was okay. Kripp and a few people openly streamed multibox for it, forever whereas no one would do it for d2 but you clearly knew it was a thing. Although bots and other hacks did play a large role in d2 but again, that is to blame blizzard for its lack of anti cheat.

AGain, its as simply as you not participating in trading while others dont have the option.

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You do realize there will be seasons, most likely leaderboards or maybe something else? Which is different then guild wars but its still a huge part of the season competition. A new season is a complete economy reset. Everyone on equal ground. A sight like d2jsp completely undermines the integrity of a new season. While your grinding hours for a item, someone else just uses their 166,000.00 forum gold they have been saving for years(earned from other games). Paying cash is the same. I put 1000 hours into a character, you put $1000+1000 hours. It’s clearly a advantage.

If you wanna pay someone to play your account for you go ahead. At least only one person can be on your account at a time. Allowing to trade/buy items means you have the resource of every single player on diablo 4 and your wallet.
If they could somehow contain it so normal people farmed their own currency that season and just wanted to trade it for other items I’d care less, but we both know its impossible with complete open trading. I personally still wouldn’t want it in seasons even then. If they want to allow trading on non seasonal characters I couldn’t care less. Keep it out of seasons imo.

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I agree that trade based ARPGs are not for me. Nothing wrong with it if that’s how you like to play but for me it is a totality different game loop. I want my loot to drop I don’t want to trade people for it. I play PoE SSF and the core loop of killing things and getting gear is awful because the game is balanced around trade.

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So your argument is to want to compete in ladder fairly and you think there will be nothing else stopping it? Every game has bots. Every game has bugs and abuses. You will never ever get a fair advantage.

Might as well complain about the testers that had a bigger beta experience earlier and restrict them from playing ladder. Might as well restrict anyone that had inside information for unfair advantage. Fk it, don’t even allow players to adjust settings.

Dude, that’s a poor argument for it, just enjoy the game and stop with this unfair nonsense. This is something that majority of people know of and enjoyed vs those that didn’t. The fact that you are taking some fun for people that enjoy trading for your reasoning is low, in fact, how about let that give you even more of a challenge to accomplish? There are many people with p2w and they are still bad.

There is no competition if you can play 20 hours while others can play 8 hours. Everyone will have their own advantage/disadvantage. Just play the game and enjoy it. They are upsetting a lot of people by doing this. Aside from that, the game can still be great but it could be greater.

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Yes, you can’t completely stop bots and theirs nothing any of us can do. Only blizzard has that power. If people wanna risk botting and potentially get banned 1 week or 2 months into the season that’s on them. We can only hope blizzard tries.

There’s nothing you can do about people with knowledge. there will always be people who know things you don’t, its on you to learn. Most of the advantage those end game beta testers will have will be gone by the 1st season release. There will be so much info on youtube it doesn’t matter.

a new season is suppose to be fresh start. like a day one release, the only thing carrying over is your knowledge on the game. rmt goes against that A fresh season we all start with nothing, we all have the same time frame. If someone can put 12 hrs a day in, they are putting in the time/effort. I don’t want to compete against some ones wallet.

They already have more trading then I personally want to see. Rares are endgame legendries that people will buy, people will buy gold. At this point there will be sights selling, and they will be spamming chat. I personally want them to get rid of both.

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Wrong, beta gives huge advantage, not everyone was able to get in. Especially the early betas that got to see more of the game but cannot share due to signing nda.

Not everyone is lucky to have the same builds as other people. Some people just simply have faster/better rigs under a lot of people’s control.
It’s not as simply as “on you” when you have kids 12 playing vs full grown adults. Mind as well have seasons specifically per age group, pc specs, etc.

Open trading should’ve stayed and you would get your “fair competition” after a season or two when you would have knowledge of the game. Knowledge of the game surpasses any p2w, especially in this sorta game. Not much players will p2w for ladder climbing if they are a good gamer, they will do that for other reasons like not having time to play, showing off, PVP, and other means. Not P2W to ladder rush because everyone knows that time is the most essential, not items.

Good luck wasting time looking for and buying gear when you don’t know what’s good or not only to find better, good luck testing builds because someone else is killing faster than you.

Not everyone looks at youtube/googling, some people research better than others so those who being unfair unless they share all the info they found and used with everyone. Oh right, you will just go youtube and google it, lol.

Your reasoning for not wanting a function that is liked by majority and worked (no matter the limitations of how dull or limited or how itemization works for something 20+ years old and just needed updates) and one of the mechanics that the franchise is known for and bought its game to glory is stupid. You want “fair” competition that you will probably truly never have.

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what item did you want?

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beta was 1 month of play time? you will get more then that before the first season. Its not that big of a advantage. There is no telling how much stuff was reworked from november until release.

I just got through saying there will always be advantages you can’t control and you talk about pc specs…
The games rated mature, its not ment for 12 year olds.

You just said time is most essentail in a ladder rush. money buys time in open trade…

Your not watching dev interviews, using d4 build calculator? There’s stuff to learn about the game and its not even out yet.

To act like good players wont p2w, and yes I don’t want p2w for any reason, its all the same.

um…thanks? I enjoy looking for and testing builds.

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Stuff gets changed but most stuff won’t get completed revamped.

But you can control them, just how restrictive they want to be. Some games verify ID just so you don’t smurf, doesn’t block it but supposedly lowers it. Trading is a game design that many many people enjoy, you’re reasoning to remove it is a bad one.

Money buys time but there will not be many people that will spend more money and time then someone. It’s one or the other. Of course there will be a a small portion of players that will. D3 was more of a fail then success because of trade restrictions. Also, d4 game design is going more of a mmorpg route, it isn’t meant for ladder.

Exactly, there is a lot of stuff to learn about the game, most people will just google and youtube what they have trouble with, when they come across something that is good compared to others, etc. It’s human nature, most people are lazy and just want to good.
Reality is, people want to win, winning is better than losing. Same thing goes for good and bad, rich and poor, list goes on and on.

There will always be some people, nothing is 100%. If you think the >5% of top tier players if there was a leaderboard were leaderboard, you’re wrong. They are top tier not because they p2w but because they put in the time and know how to play. You really want to take away the joy of trading for many because of such a miniscule thing? Again, the game is new, don’t play for ladder, play for the actual game. Trading is a huge part of D2 and enjoyed by majority.

I’m talking about people that do that, they are ruining the gaming experience and their time trading when they can be advancing. Most people won’t p2w because they can’t afford or throw money away like that, trading on the other hand is part of the game and more and more people starting going ssf route in previous games because they completed and cleared all content… This is not the case with d4 so people including you, will most likely participate and use it as well.

At the end, again, this wanting competitive ladder racing and all is nonsense. Removing a key aspect mechanic that majority of people enjoyed. Instead of finding ways for a unfair ladder, you should be playing SSF and competing your clear time to others that haven’t, racing others on ladder yourself, comparing powers with those yourself, etc. that’s the real challenge.

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Everything you say is a assumption or a opinion and your acting like your just talking facts. I get it you want trading, thats fine. But dont just say majority of people want trade in d4, because you don’t know that. Nothing is being removed because this is d4, not d2. You have no idea how many people will buy gear vs farming it. Theres plenty of people with disposable income that can throw a extra 100 bucks every season without a thought. Then theres people with tons of forum gold that is basically cash that will be used in d4 if theres open trading.
On the other hand I’m telling you open trade will cause rmt, it will cause spam of “deals” in chat for gold/gear for money., blizzard will have to balance drops around trade, it will incentivize more bots farming to sell for real money. My opinion is trading isn’t worth the negatives. Don’t just say my views are bad because you don’t agree. Blizzard is already leaning towards no trade, and I hope they make it stricter before the first season.

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It’s not opinion brother, its facts, majority of people prefer trading enabled then disabled. Fans are here because it’s DIABLO, because its BLIZZARD, not because it’s a new game. New games get released everyday.

It’s core game design that diablo is known for and loved. A lot more fans want those core designs from d2. It’s literally what made diablo franchise known. Doesn’t matter if its 23 years old and outdated, it works, people want that, it was simple yet addicting.

Many people will buy gear and 38218312x more people will farm it, simply because they can’t afford or want to spend money for it. That percentage is very low to the amount of players. You do realize that right? Worrying about that small % of total players p2w as a reason to disable such a fun mechanic for a higher % of that number is just selfish.

On the other hand, spam and chat bots are annoying as heck, they are definitely not wanted or liked or enjoyable for anyone at all. Bots are evitable, has nothing to do with people using bots.

Well, my opinion and majority will be the other. It’s a must if they want that franchise branding unique because there isn’t any other mmo arpg out there that can even compare with the depth and customization of a open fun working market it provided for many even being as simple, basic, old and outdated as it was/is.

Good luck on d4 and I am looking forward to it with little expectations but because I love d2. It is easily the best arpg game ever still to this day. Just more outdated than aol instant messenger.
Worst case is, PoE2 will hopefully be more successful because I heard they plan to make it less complex to cater the d2 fans which wasn’t ready for the complexity of it and if that happens, not long before we see some huge patch or d2 game designs and mechanics back because blizzard will be upset and jealous like its d4 players that won’t play ssf and complaining about core game designs that is know for their franchise. .

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Yes, d2 was my first arpg and I played a ton, I played a ton of WoW and also d3. trading isn’t what kept me coming back. skill progression, loot progression, pve, pvp are a few of the things that did.

Its a opinion unless you can back it up.

These sights and trade spammers wouldn’t exist if people didn’t give them money, once again show me these numbers that you know its such a small percentage. How many selling sights are their, what’s there profit everyday, how many transactions. Go do d2jsp and look at how much forum gold these people have. Do you know how you get forum gold to trade for items, you buy it with cash. 3000 forum gold equals about $100 usd.

Yea good luck to you to, poe has all the trading you can ask for and I’m sure poe2 will as well. One of the reasons people don’t like ssf is because the drop rates are balanced around trade.

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Yes but trading is what many people enjoy, removing it is just losing those people while others can choose to not participate. Other reason such as unfair ladder climb is minuscule.

It is a fact, D3 lost unreal large amount numbers of players after they removed rmah then another unreal amount of large players after account bounding items started.

If you spent most of your life playing the franchise, you’ll “know” that. Numbers will always be numbers, there will always be a counter, nothing will be fact. Do you really think a bigger number of players throw money out then play for free? That’s the question to ask yourself.

PoE has no where near the resources blizzard has. The most basic thing you can tell was from their graphics. People don’t like ssf because they get jealous of other ppl.

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It is not a fact. It is a fabrication. The multiple posts from multiple accounts spouting this garbage has all the marks of a 4am talking point.

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Not as many people enjoy trading as you think.

And those that don’t can’t just opt out of it because the addition of trading requires changes in drop rates in order to ensure that people are urged toward trading, otherwise there’ll be nothing to trade, which means that you’re essentially forcing people to trade that don’t want to.

The vast majority of people do not enjoy trading. If they did then there would be little to no wealthare in the world.

Trading doesn’t just make a small portion of the player base happy, it also frustrates everyone else that HAS to do it if they want to make progress in the game.

Not having trading makes the vast majority of people happy that they can enjoy the game without external sites and/or constant spamming of channels etc… whilst having next to no impact to those that do like trading.

If you want a trading game, go find one, don’t try to turn this in to something it’s not.

The reason the AH was removed from D3 was because of how much of a negative impact it had on the game.

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pure assumption, based on feelings are no real arguments. I could also say many like not to trade. And it would be probably right too.

Yes, but i speculate that most were Botting accounts. Had a friend who was a using gold botting with 100 accounts. Now they are back in wow. poof 100 accounts, not players gone. So for me this argument is hardly any evidence.

see above.

jealousy has nothing to do with game systems, You would find an equal amount of jelousy in a full trading system, if not more since amount of whales to nonwhales. In a no trading environment less whales will pop, cause less incentive.

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Again, they have the option to not do it vs having the option. Drop rates are fine in many many games that have trading available, what are you talking about? Only thing its affecting is you having to take longer to gear but it is definitely not impossible.

People mostly use numbers and facts are those numbers drop dragstically after those 2 core components. If that’s not evidence, idk what is. Nothing will ever win in an argument, there will be no facts.

Again, the main question, very simple, do you think more people spend money to p2w then vice versa? Absolutely not. Many people wish they could throw money at the game like that but they can’t. At the end, it’s a bot problem, not a trading problem, people should be going hard for them to fend against bots to not ruin a game, not a feature such as trading. The exchange for that is so minuscule.

Jealously sure does. Item drop rate with SSF has been perfectly fine for all their franchises to be able to complete all content, at a slower harder pace, but you surely can.
People want a challenge and mechanics like scaling, no trading, etc. that doesn’t suit or bring the feel of D2 which is what diablo is known for and then also want to be able to get the best of the best items and scaling, wth. Of course, if you are trying to get the BiS item, it will take a lot more time so yes, it’s more of a jeolousy thing if you ask me since you are well capable of completing all content SSF at a good pace.

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More people enjoy trading than you think. Trading is a huge part of Diablo franchises and MMORPGS. If it was a new aRPG mmo that wasn’t diablo, sure, it’ll make more sense. For example, are you going to turn cutesy pokemon theme to dark vampiric underworld theme? You can argue about that but the vast answer will be NO.

Change in drop rates? You are fully capable of completely all content SSF in all of their games of the franchise so I don’t know what you mean by its forcing you if you want to make process in game. I guess you are just a terrible gamer. It doesn’t matter what the drop rates are, they can set it to whatever they want, restrictions and account bound is just bad mechanic and doesn’t suit Diablo at all. Sure, they can go a whole new direction and it could work out great or even better but don’t be in denial.

Everything has it’s pros and cons but the pros out weighs it for trading. It’s just not suited for Diablo. Do not give people false hope telling them it will feel like playing some d2+d3 at the minimum when it’s not true. That’s what we were told in one of their interviews sneak peek thingies before beta was released.

Not having trading does not make the vast majority of people happy. Does not impact those that do like trading? How does that even make sense. Other way around, makes more. I agree constant spamming of channels is annoying as heck and needs something done about it, stupid bot spammers but at least you also have option to mute the channel. People that enjoy it have none of those options simply because of stupid account bound. We only tested beta and we can trade rares so let’s see what the full release will be like.

If you want a game that doesn’t suit diablo, go find one. Don’t turn this franchise to something its not. Real diablo fans are leaving real feedback that matters. You act like we don’t want diablo to succeed, in fact I’ve enjoyed the beta very much but to say it’s another diablo aside from the dark theme, it’s ridiculously. D2 was the greatest game by far in their franchise, if you say it sucked, you are clueless. Don’t call yourself a diablo fan if anyone didn’t like D2. As you can see, from d2r, the mechanics work. Just needs new content. The greatest thing they accomplished was upgrading the graphics.

P.S. the AH was removed because it had a negative impact on the game? More like negative impact on their revenue. Look at the player count drop after that it being removed, after account bound items, after the 1st year. That first half year was great, over flooded with players, community chat active. Definitely not the same

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