What would a non gacha D4 look like?

No timers, no farming boring content for anything. Maximize the fun and challenge. Conan the Barbarian never has to farm some low level no challenge Drivel boss till he goes squint eyed and loses IQ from boredom. Why should I? In Diablo one I went into the dungeon and the killing started and did not end for a long time. Next time same thing. Each time no gacha boredom, just fun.

In a real game there would be the same bosses at various tier levels of nightmare difficulty with custom and actually hard dungeons each. There won’t be 5 hp kobolds bravely not stopping you at all from getting to the boss. Doing Varshan and Grigoire would unlock Duriel, a Zir dungeon level hard boss. Fighting the challenging Duriel rewards Uber Unique rewards. After unlocking you can go in anytime to fight them. Their unique drop rate would be rarer, but you would just fight to them and it is difficult and rewarding. Maybe some of them are trivial after your gear improves. Maybe they also gear up just like The Butcher and keep being a challenge. That is how I would design it, they scale in difficulty as you scale in power.

If I was the designer the 5 bosses would all be in the same dungeon and unlock at various times. Let’s say one is the T2 capstone. When you get to T3 you can go fight him anytime, it is an automatic NM dungeon and its loot scales with level. Second one unlocks T4. In T4 you can now fight both of them. Ideally at a scaling NM level. They unlock physically after some quests or something and are at some NM tier level with Duriel at 100+ aka Zir difficulty or something. Each unlock rescales the previous ones to be harder. Maybe Zir is at zir 1 and Duriel at Zir 5 or 10 or whatever. You fight the whole outfit at some high NM level, not the initial low levels. Duriel unlocks each new run when you kill the others, etc.

There would not be automatic drops. Ubers at 2% sounds fine, maybe the other uniques at 10%. Spread the ubers across all of them at NM 100 or zir 1. Increase drop rate and or quality as difficulty increases. Never ever again hand out free 925 loot and then when doing more difficult content your reward is worse garbage. Items need to scale with difficulty. I do like the stepping stone effect of it, but step to 900, leave 925+ for the harder stuff? The Butcher gets an uber drop, by far the best hardest working boss and we should be able to collect his cleaver and apron at the very least. Lillith gets an uber drop. Their ubers should be include in builds good. If I max out a vampire lure I go to some boss. Maybe Zir, maybe another. Difficult and with an uber chance once I do it at a high enough level.

Completing the season journeys reward useful gear. Actual high level uniques. Something other than a bag of blue and yellow vendor trash. There is a level 100 reward. D3 felt so amazing that way. D4 feels like a calous dev is face slapping me at each of those moments and yelling “take your medicine”.

All the uniques have uber versions. I don’t want to know people that got one. I want to be someone that got one and it needs to be difficulty based, not gacha farming rubbish based. Reward me for going into a difficult dungeon and fighting a difficult boss. Please.

All the non uniques have uber versions like the primals in D3 and at higher drop rates and achievable perfect affixes. I don’t care if people can blow through the season in 1 week. That is a good thing. We can be back to pay for the next season 3
months later. Why should your gacha game take up 24/7? It makes no sense. Not even for a streamer.

This leaves clear visible progression to work towards. Add it to the season progression achievements. Tune it so people stall out after Duriel depending on skill level. Maybe there is some farming that can get you a bit farther or better yet all the way because we all pay money for this supposed entertainment. That would finally be a release quality game.

Why is this good? Right now I have spent hours of regrettable time staring at items trying to quickly and accurately detect upgrades. I have farmed helltide against my will and desire. I have farmed the dumb Drivel gacha pyramid scheme of boredom and should I just uninstall already? I farmed Zir for an hour or two after laboriously releveling glyphs. And I mean laborious, you need to clear now to get sigil drops to get dust. Then in an hour or two I was down 10k dust to 55k.

The math was clear. More gacha farming that gates going to zir. I just uninstalled. It is a nice barrier against getting suckered in again. 3rd time lucky at quitting? I don’t want to but this is so rough and unpolished and experimental.

My current quit goal is to check each season to see if it has grown up to be a real game and if the gacha coprolites are finally gone. I hope they go. The actual game is already great except for the terrible gameplay design. I even bought a bunch of cosmetics. The art department is doing a fantastic job. Time for the game design to become AAA as well.

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I’m not going to read all of that. Nice novel though. i bet you tried super hard.

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Yes bob I tried real hard. Although it is weird that novels bore you but you do play this game in its current boring state.

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More of a hilarious (not sure if intentional) usage of this. Conan is perhaps one of the worst MMOs on launch because it literally left you around a 30 level gap at launch of “nothing” content wise to level-up on. It was ridiculous

Anyways…

This is where you and I will differ the most in your “article.” The progressions ystem that developed in D3 over time was atrocious for an ARPG in my opinion. You got to 85% power with maybe 8 - 10 hours of gameplay, 95% of power after maybe 20 more and then… yeah. That last 5% was a lot of this same grinding for the sake of grinding you seem to have an issue with but maybe even a bit worse because you were grinding for x stat boost. At least in D4 I have Duriel to grind on for uber uniques

Hopefully, the itemization change planned for season 4 fixes your first issue. Itemization is the one sore spot I still have in D4. They fixed the “grind loop” enough in Season 2 to make the game enjoyable if the season is fun. Now, it is on itemization revamp to elevate the game more.

I would note that if you’re down 10k dust in 1 hour this it is ~11 attempts on Zir which means you were bashing your head repeatedly into the wall which I did as well with Charged Bolt for awhile so I get it. They’re tweaking Zir tomorrow and if it comes back as an eternal element we’ll all kind of figure out the power level needed to not do that and won’t waste all that dust learning content power.

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D4 is already in gacha.

The gacha version of D4 is DI.

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The op is talking about the D3 entitlement of handholding, spoon feeding and wanting for nothing.

Bur your right DI is the gacha game

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this guys makes a new post about gacha like everyday. i dont think he even understands what a gacha game actually is.

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Some things in D3 “were” good though, there was good and bad in it.
More variety to base skills- was win.
Sets- some were wins, others were pidgeonhole to XYZ build only- captain crimsons waders> fun and useful for most any build, Shadows Raiment> impale DH only, build to certain specs, very very little freedom to customise, had a tonne of strong legendaries to back into it…
Paragons……… ten foot hole. Bury. Cover in concrete. Plain bad.

Legendaries- there were enough legendaries to fill a fair few stashes if you hoarded, some fun (bouncy grenades! Automatic artillery barrage belt with barrels of nails , and a bunch of others. Oh, and pig sticker for the squeal memes).

There was a fair bit of hand holding throughout the game I can agree. Plus ridiculous damage numbers :rofl:

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I’d say Genshin Impact is Gatcha.
D4 is definitely not at the gatcha stage, we are not gambling for new characters using money :rofl:

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I still enjoy this game. I just came back to it after another stint on BG3 (which wasn’t bad but not my cup of tea although I did give it another try).

I guess to me the whole reason I play and love this series is the mindless grind. It allows me to just veg out while playing a game without using too much brain power or getting too stressed. I play games to relax not to be challenged too much. If I want a real challenge I’ll go play a more competitive game or go challenge inmates to dominoes.

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i read gacha and stopped reading cause im pretty sure the thread is pretty pointless.

anyone has a tl:dr?

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ARPGs without gacha would move to skill-based gameplay, since a stat-based power progression would make the game end very quickly if it’s not heavily based on RNG.

I do think that the future of aRPGs is skill based without leveling etc. People are more receptive to interesting combat mechanics nowadays, rather than stats crunching.

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Hopefully that future doesnt come. You are basically saying you want an arcade game. They already make arcade games.

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I don’t play Hades but the gameplay would probably look similar to that. Interestingly, Hades is also a successor of dungeon crawlers/roguelikes but took a different path while preserving the format.

Blah blah RNG sucks blah blah word I heard somewhere but don’t know what it means blah blah blah gimme stuff blah blah walking is hard blah blah blah.

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hahaha xD That was probably pretty accurate

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Sometimes my humor works

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You don’t know what a gacha game is at all, do you?

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There are plenty of other games out there where you kill the boss to get the sword needed to kill the mini boss to upgrade the sword to kill the boss that gives you the armor to give you a fighting chance at killing the one of the main story bosses which blocks your progress until you beat it.

That’s not an ARPG though and takes more actual dexterity and skill than farming up a bunch or drops for hours to min/max your atk power and armor values. Both genres appeal to different people. Some of us play both, plus several other types of games. When we get bored of a game we move to the next one, but with an understanding that games of a particular genre almost always have the same formula.

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Just boring novels like everything you typed out.