Many players argue that Diablo 4 has no real endgame.
We start with the short leveling phase up to level 60.
Then we have the longer Torment progression phase where we try to get as high as we can.
At that point, we can look for even better gear, but chances are we won’t get much if anything.
Our endgame is
chasing for the best possible items. (Tormented Bosses)
mastercrafting everything perfectly.
leveling our Glyphs.
maybe push the Pit even higher.
Doing Nightmare Dungeons, Helltides and Kurast Undercity isn’t really endgame.
Or is it?
What do you think the endgame should be?
Another level of crafting?
Some other progression system besides Glyphs?
A different type of dungeon?
We can’t tell Blizzard we need endgame content, but every time they add something, we tell them it’s not endgame content.
Is doing Helltide with a potion that makes it more difficult endgame?
Would adding rare, legendry and unique keys for Nightmare dungeons be endgame?
Are bosses, summoned with more material for a stronger version, endgame?
Endgame means really one thing. Challenge. Endgame has to be something that challenges the user. Rewards can and should be nice too but challenge is the main part. That is what is missing right now in the game and especially for SB. There is no challange, no risk of death, no real reason to go for or get anything because you can crush everything in 1 GA gear for the most part.
PPL think they want to just blaster master all content and have a good time but this wears off quickly. What ppl really want is a challenge. Something to overcome. A reason that you need better gear.
That is all gone in S6 unless you play non SB then it becomes more of a challenge.
you literally proved yourself wrong. if people want/crave challenge and that is endgame and what they want, then they wouldnt be playing spiritborn and would be playing the other classes.
there are many flaws in d2 s itemization. however the best part of it was you could work your way up to that BIS item bit by bit. and hence you could either get a dopamine hit for an item which is non-usable by your class …
here in d3 and d4 … when I gear up a character with 1 GA’s … (mind you you can do nearly all content with the right rolled 1 GAs on nearly every class) then there is not much to do and you question what am I farming for ??
I can d2 has the least number of end game activities but it is still played more since the item hunt is more engaging
“end game” means so many different things to different people it’s basic a meaningless term.
But what I am looking for from the game is a decent of rate of progression and fun combat.
Progression is in a terrible place right now due to the awful itemization and everything being target farmed. I basically just settle for good enough and can’t be bothered loot hunting. Previously in S4 and S5 I just made a ton of alts. But with anything not SB sucking this season I only have a few this season.
Combat. I don’t know what it is. But D4 pits I can be bored in a few runs. At which point I log out and go play D3 and run grifts for hours. Despite being virtually identical one bores me in minutes the other I can play for hours. I just can’t quite put my finger on what the issue is.
The Pit, Arcane Sanctuary, Chaos Sanctuary, cows, boss runs etc. were all more distinct than just farming Infernal Hordes and Tormented bosses over and over again.
I wouldnt go that far. When runes became trade currency it was about opening chests in UK/LK which was boring af. Wanted xp it was baal/chaos and when they added TZ it added a bit more.
End games meaning, player would have goal for much better improvements of their characters to challenge much dangerous and lethal bosses, (not one shot bosses). For example, D2 has awesome gems drop from Mephisto which improved all overall the players stats and damage in order to challege much stronger bosses. ( only the strong one stand out in ranking)
Progression is off because you can get pretty much anything anywhere. Doesnt matter if you are in the weakest content or the “toughest” content, you still can get anything. Fix that first. Tougher content should have better gear.
Move boss ladder to actual endgame and not just loot pinata. Put them all in the hell that we went to in the base game campaign and put wings for each of them down there. First you have to struggle through hell and then you can pick the wing you goto to kill boss. Wings are locked so that you have to kill a certain boss to unlock the next wing.
Give the bosses resilience like the world bosses have so that nobody, no matter how op, can just one shot them. Make people do the actual mechanics to kill them. Then have a high chance for mythic drops, maybe even another tier of awesome gear with an added special affix, if you don’t get that then you get a guaranteed spark. Add more bosses to the ladder occasionally. Could also add awesome cosmetics that have effects on them. Remove the uniques from the loot table and put them in undercity.
What players want, in my opinion as a player, is to get stronger to beat stronger opponents, receive good rewards, and feel a bit like a hero after a tough day at work. There’s a parallel between a game boss and our company boss, I think, since video games were created. If we cannot get stronger, or there are no stronger opponents, or there are no good rewards, that’s not good.
So, a good endgame would ensure we still have stronger opponents and can still become stronger. Currently, in Season 6, there are a lot of builds that cannot get stronger, like the poison rogue, and some aspects that have fixed and low damage. That’s an issue. That’s why players stop playing or rage quit (not to mention tons of bugs).
Building something could be a great end game that would work well with what they already have. Like a base or something, where everything you do earns you materials towards helping the wanderers in their fight against evil.
So something like the den with your mercenaries and things like that, but then you add on various upgrades and defenses and other things. Now you’re working towards something as you do your stuff and get stronger.
I feel like the various activities they have now are pretty diverse, with some being quick and easy like the world bosses and the nightmare dungeons, and others being a scaffolded challenge like the pit, or a timed challenge like the undercity, and they even brought in a multiplayer dungeon, all on top of the torment system.
So how do they make us care bout continuing to do things? Give us something to build, which would take some of the pressure off of the constant search for that perfect piece of gear or that perfect upgrade.
Then, within that base building or whatever it is type of system, they could have cosmetics and upgrades to services like better chance on tempering from your blacksmith, mount farming, decorations, etc.
Each season, it could have a different theme, so it doesn’t feel bad to get rid of what you created. It should be something useful to your progress.
But I reached a point where I was like, why am I even doing these things? The only thing to work towards was a loooong grind for more paragon points or crafting materials for the final 4 levels on each piece of gear. But for what? I could already do everything in the game except for some of the higher pit levels. So what am i even doing? If I had an army or castle or something to create with my spoils and effort, then it would feel meaningful.
Yep, that make me think to a tower defense mini-game, that could be a great addition to the game. You construct your base then you use its defenses against waves of deamons, then you get rewards if success (like defenses upgrades)
Endgame starts when the story is over. “END GAME” as to “The end of the game”.
The thing in D4 is, people do not even play the story anymore. So i think now it starts when you hit lv 60.
Oh it has. It’s just boring. Cause
these 2 are just busy work. There is no effort in itself, you just play the game and since you scale and scale and scale you eventualy hit a point where there is no challenge whatsoever.
The issue is that we have a constant flow of “progression”. Oh you cannot deal pit 50, well grind 2 hours and you can. Now you might think it is allways like that, but it is not.
Normaly in an ARPG the power comes through loot. So when you find a good item you progress. That progress is what makes the “Loot” woirthwhile.
In D4 you do not necessarly need loot. You can just lv para up and you gain enough power. Now you have progress that feels “boring”.
We need to get rid of all the busy work. “Mastercrafting, Paraboard, Glyphs” these add nothing new, they just raise numbers. It’S terrible and with all these Gone the whole focus would lie on Items. Which should be the focus anyway.
I think it was Quinn that made the statement about having endless progression wasn’t a good idea, so we are seeing a ceiling for power and mobs that people will eventually hit even if power doesn’t need to hit the ceiling before you can kill every mob.
Me i’d like to see endless progression that people can push themselves through. T1 would drop gear upto a max GL and mats found would only work on T1 gear, when you get strong, hit a min gearscore, you go into T2 with or without a full set of T1 gear then you would start getting T2 gear and mats, etc. You make gear linear in it’s progression so someone wearing T2 gear who goes back to T1 then the gear assumes T1 equivalent stats so you aren’t way OP for the tier.
They already have some of these features ingame with aspects hitting a ceiling on gear. They also do away with weighted rolls, limited gear drops and make enchanting allowable on more that 1 stat per piece with increased costs per stat re-rolled.
Yes you would need to replace gear more often as you progressed into higher tiers, but that’s the endgame of gearing up to hit higher and higher tiers without being able to bypass a tier by farming lower tiers because you would eventually hit 100% gear on current tier and next tier is 25% - 100% stronger and you need that tiers gear.
Challenge is irrelevant to me. I want more story. I think they should implement some sort of user generated content. I remember when Star Trek Online had user created missions, some of them were really nice, then they just got rid of the system and the game was never the same for me. All the content is there, they just need to create a system players can use to make stories in the game using the assets that are available.
The end game in all games is PvP. “my toon can beat your toon” is evergreen and dynamic content, and when you lose you know what you gotta do. But this end game can’t be as long as one or two specs with outrageously bugged interactions are featured every season.
Even if the end game isn’t PvP, the biggest problem with the current “end game” is how trivial it is for the meta bugged specs. If you work your way through it on a build with damage that works as intended, it’s pretty satisfying. When one spec is getting there and clearing it hundred of times more efficiently than other specs, and most players are on that spec then the end game is pointless for most players because most players didn’t have to work for it.
A good endgame makes you work for it, with the work feeling fair.
