What I personally want out of a Paladin/Knight class

PC General Discussion
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I know it’s been heavily implied we may get a Paladin style class in the next expansion (and maybe a return to Tristram? that would be sick), but D4 has obviously made the Zakarum faith into a pretty evil force.

For my part, I would love to see a more heroic “holy knight” sort of character. Tyrael in Diablo 2 was a great example, and I actually really liked the visual style of the Angels in D3. I know Diablo has a very “dark, gothic” visual style, but I found it to be a little overbearing at times, especially how twisted the Zakarum appeared.

I always quite liked the idea of a new brand of Paladin seeking to become a new “Aspect of Justice” after Tyrael’s fall, but mainly just allowing them to be more traditional “good guys”, not edgelords and I half worry they could be.

Gameplay wise, I REALLY want to have a reason to use a Sword and Shield. Maybe they could stance-dance a little between 1hand+shield and 2hand styles?I actually want LESS flashy visuals for more spells, just to make it easier to se.

Make Auras more central to the class, though. Not just “different auras to use”, but maybe something like the Laws in D3, where you get Passive effects to your innate aura when your abilities are off cooldown, but briefly flare up in ability use, before dissipating until your cooldowns are reset.

I’m perfectly fine with them being a B or C tier class for solo, as long as they feel like S tier in group play. Maybe actually encourage them to tank damage somehow, instead of the usual “best defense is overwhelming offense” strategy that most classes seem to take.

Also, assuming we get a Paladin, I honestly just love the idea of taking my time through the whole story again, especially if he feels a little closer to that “knight in shining armor”. I know some people consider that type of character to be “too vanilla”, but it’s always my go to style character.

Keep them fairly fit and muscular (somewhere between Barb and Spiritborn, I would say), but I would like face options that are like late 20s/early 30s. Give them more “kind” looking faces , . Sounds weird to say, but I would almost imagine a younger Hugh Grant, just not another “grizzled veteran” sort of look.

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If I can be really greedy… I would love for a Hellknight as well. Would be fun to get both. Or maybe one class that has aspects of both.

Like a Demon of hell that defected or something and has a whole assortment of fire and blood powers to destroy things but also has embraced the light

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An interesting idea, although I would personally hate the two being combined. For me, I’m looking for that quintessential “good guy fighting against evil”. I don’t feel like any of the existing classes fill that role, and particularly with the Zakarum being SO evil now, I feel like a more classical Paladin type character is needed more than ever.

You can call them Paladin, Crusader, or even something new, but I really want to feel like that “light in the darkness”. Especially with D4 being particularly dark.

Having said all that, the Blood Knight in Immortal is actually pretty cool. I could totally get behind bringing him into the game proper, as well as bringing a full-fledged “vampire” to the scene.

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Faith manifest in a righteous warrior of the Light is constant and true - none of this “kinda on but not really” bs. An aura is on, until it is not needed, and then it is off.

Keep the retconned Crusader in D3 for all time, and let’s not speak of it further.

I will fight you over this. :crossed_swords: :shield:

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Well then it’s fightin’ time, brother!!

In all seriousness, my big thing is I’d personally like to be able to replace traditional active abilities with passive Auras. I play on controller, and I actually find it kind of awkward to try and use all of my skills regularly. I like the idea of being able to sacrifice personal damage for better auras.

I mostly just liked the idea of “you can make them extra powerful if you really need it”, simply because I figure most people would despite the idea of only having 2-3 buttons for a character. Be personally, though, I actually sorta feel like it’s the right number!

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But aside from class fantasy (auras as ‘constants’ in the midst of doubt) your mechanic could be snuck-in via synergies with other skills (non-auras). Activate offensive spell Y, active aura X unleashes an aoe that does Z. I wouldn’t mind it, that’d be pretty cool.

The coolest aspect of old-school D2 auras (both for solo & group play) was they could alternate & overlap… turn on Conviction to reduce enemy armor & resists, then turn on Fire or Shock aura to burn them down. 7-second cycle. This was before certain runewords.

My sense is that the D3 “Laws” take on Crusader faux-auras were given passive & active effects (like the Monk’s) simply because they occupied a slot on the spell bar, and the devs wanted you to be able to “press da button” and make the spell “do something”. I think that’s an artificial constraint & shows a lack of dedication to the class fantasy. A Paladin should “embody” the aura… it should be a fixed, always-on effect (which can synergize with other spells, just a reminder) that reflects the ‘true’ and ‘constant’ faith of its source.

My abbreviated treatise. Pegged to your portcullis at the tip of a spear.

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In the end, all that matters is that it feels good to play, and that they don’t turn the D4 version into more or less a pure caster, like they did Crusader. (Cru-SAD-er more like)

D2 Paladin was deceptively simple, and oozed class fantasy… in the opinions of some of the devs at the time, it gelled the overall class fantasy of D2 as a whole (agreed!), and central to that was the constancy of auras, imo.

Which, again, could and did synergize with other spells - including other auras - in dynamic, tactical ways.

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When did Blizzard ever “heavily implied” this do you have a source?

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Can’t provide you the time stamp, but at this past summer’s events in California (Seattle?), in which streamers were invited to test the Spiritborn, the Adam(?) who isn’t CM (or someone equivalent) said so without saying so. It was in response to a blunt question like “what about Paladin?”. The dev mulled over the words in his head, passed them through a training algorithm they no doubt installed in all their brains in preparation for this very question, and told us what he could (read: what he was permitted to)…

To paraphrase: “In the office, this is the question we hear all the time - a producer will come up to me regularly and simply say ‘When Paladin?’’. We decided a few months ago to pause earlier class development, both because we want to make sure we get it right, and in order to first release a class that’s brand new and different. My advice to people is: be patient.”

Not his exact words, but his exact sentiments. He’s not allowed to say “we’ve been working on a holy knight archetype for ages, we just want to make sure we don’t fudge it up because the fanatics, both out there and in the office, will destroy us if we do” but he came darn close to saying just that.

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How about this. :point_down:

8:23

The season of change! Tiffany Wat and Rod Fergusson of Blizzard joins us for a chat about the community, balance changes, and jokes about a Paladin. Timestamps: 00:00 How much of the campaign do you need to complete before you can get into Vessel of Hatred? 01:43 What is the process of choosing whether or not to the previous season mechanics were added to the core game? 06:27 What are the big points of feedback that the team is looking for to address once Vessel of Hatred is out? 08:19 What’s the reception been like? You know, seeing a sort of split between the excitement of a new class, a desire for their old favorites. 11:02 What’s the cadence of expansions? 11:45 What was the goal behind the new dungeon activity?

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Players will boycott this game if the next class isn’t Paladin/crusader. I’m sure Blizzard is aware of this.

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TLDR

  • Auras
  • Shield
  • Defense Oriented
  • Caster/Melee Hybrid
  • Platemail
  • Holy Magic

That sums up a Paladin. D4 can change that slightly to have Horadric Magic and not Holy Magic with 2H Sword, Polearm, 1H Sword and 1H Bludgeoning.

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A last ditch effort to get to roots, is my proposal to this team. Paladin prior to 1.09 used to be solidly a melee class, with supplemental magics. This should be (I hope has been) the guiding light.

The magic should infuse the Paladin’s martial prowess, and only occasionally manifest in pure magic spells… in niche builds - maybe boss killers - or for utility - I guess also pvp. The Paladin should feel the impact of bone and claw against shield, otherwise what’s the point of a shield? What’s the point of the scepter if it doesn’t crush demon skulls? Just a buff stick?

I have low expectations. I don’t think this team (or D3 team before it) understands or loves melee combat. I think they’ve inherited an office culture that shunned it more than a decade ago, and have no appetite to center it again. Everything in this game whooshes and sweeps and glides across… even through enemies. It’s not visceral, and it doesn’t crunch. Why are they afraid of the crunch?

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I want the Paladin class to use a gigantic lance, which hits slow/hard, and can be transformed into a huge gun (as tall as the char) that shoots huge silver light beams

I hope it won’t be a buff/aura class. I hope it’s a slow tank with a ****-load of damage similar to the new doom guy

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I honestly love that idea, having attack skills that further empower your aura in different ways. I personally loved the Crusader in D3, but I totally feel you, and also agree with making them more Melee oriented. I would like to see them made truly tanky, though, just to avoid feeling overly squishy. I’m not a fan of instant death.

But for me, it’s really all about the “class fantasy” of being a holy knight, and de facto “hero/good guy” in a game that feels a bit overly cynical (except when it’s maybe being too “emotional”).

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You dare speak ill of my beloved Crusader. The nerve!

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