I’ve seen people having some issues with the tempering system, mainly the durability part of it. I think the notion that you can “brick” and item so easily is a little lame, especially when you get a 2 or 3 greater affix item. Being lucky enough to get one of them only to roll badly on the tempers would be a really horrible experience. Not to mention it prevents being able to “experiment” with a temper, unless you get another item of around the same stats (which could be an intended mechanic, thinking about it).
The way I see it, there’s a few solutions:
Remove Tempering durability
This would be the nuclear solution to the problem. I don’t necessarily agree with this, because while it would make tempering easy as hell since the material cost is cheap, it would also make tempering feel kind of like a throwaway mechanic you don’t put much thought into - just pressing the button over and over until you get what you want.
Increase Tempering durability
I think this is the first good solution. It’s still possible to brick items if there were, say 10 attempts instead of 5, but much less likely. You might not get perfect tempers, but you will at least get what you’re interested in.
Add Temper reset
I think this is another interesting solution. So the idea here would be you can reset all the tempers on an item to get back all your rerolls. However, this would come at a price, presumably either a huge chunk of materials or a lot of gold. I think this would be a good spot to implement the unlimited gold scaling cost. You could buy tempering rerolls, but the more precise and more rerolls you want, the more gold you have to spend. Eventually the item would get bricked by gold cost alone, but you’d get tons of rerolls as a result.
Greater Affix based rerolls
This is probably my favorite option I’ve seen discussed. Something like +2 rerolls for each Greater Affix you get on an item would make tempering so much more tolerable, since proportionally the rarer the item, the more lenience you get on the tempers.
What do you think? Any other ideas for improving Tempering? Or do you think Tempering even needs to be changed?
#1 could easily be rectified by adding a scaling gold cost like with enchanting.
#2 I could also see happening.
#3 Is less likely in my opinion, but wouldn’t leave it off the table.
Regardless of what they do, if anything, people will complain. We currently have people complaining that it’s even allowed to reroll and shouldn’t be there at all.
I see it as a choice. If you personally don’t feel you should be able to reroll a tempered affix, don’t do it. Nothing is forcing you to spend those reroll attempts, nor would they force you if you had infinite or more attempts to do so.
The notion that players shouldn’t have options just boggles my mind in general. No one forced me to play a minion build this season, it was my choice.
cant really agree with you on this one. a game follows rules. while choices are of course mostly a good thing, its a pretty easy route to be like “ok, add infinite tempering, the people who dont like it can just not use it”.
The first item I rerolled at Occultist allowed a LOT of tries, but I eventually got the stat I wanted and didn’t cost too much. The next item that I serial rerolled ramped up FAST to 4.7m/roll. I spent over 500m trying and still no Counterstrike roll.
I wound up just settling w/ the +24% Dmg roll I got. Is that additive vs. Counterstrike’s +4% dmg?
Difference between a rule and a choice though. If they change a rule that says you can have more attempts, then your choices are more open ended. If they limit it, your choices are obviously limited.
There’s nothing stopping a player from not utilizing the choice though. I personally stop trying to reroll affixes through enchanting after it gets to a certain gold cost. I know others go well beyond that point. That’s a personal choice. The only rule is the game allows it to happen.
I’m not saying to even implement the changes the OP is making, but it wouldn’t bother me if any of these changes were implemented either. As I have always been for more player choices, not less.
in terms of enchanting, yea, i agree with you. this scenario doesnt apply to tempering tho, except for, as you said the costs would exponentially increase. what happens next?
people will moan about not having enough gold, or prices being too high.
I honestly think there are certain things were players just have to abide some rules that the game sets.
it is perfectly ok to be able to brick an item. tempering is fine currently as is. why do people expect to just be able to get bis and whatever they want with ease?
Oh absolutely they will, and there should be high costs in my opinion for potentially resetting your progress on an affix, or bonus, or whatever. I still have no issues with allowing the player to choose if they want to spend that cost.
All I know is the Tempering reroll is inconsistent with the other two systems of enchanting and masterworking, which given enough money and materials, allow for infinite rerolls so to speak. I’m not saying either system is correct mind you, just pointing out the inconsistency is all.
I will abide by the rules set forth by the game currently. If they decide to change those rules though, I will weigh my options and choose what to do with my item given I have more options of course. That’s all I’m saying.
I wouldn’t call it a matter of “ease,” if you manage to get a 3 GA legendary with all stats you want, and you roll tempers your build doesn’t use, that would feel really bad. Especially with how rare 3 GA items are. Another idea I saw thrown around is increasing the number of temper rerolls based on the number of GAs, so for instance imagine getting 2 extra rerolls per GA, for a total of +6 on a 3 GA item.
People already want the game to be faster and easier, when to me it already feels like the game is on crack and a crash course with Diablo 3.
Finding and crafting perfect gear is a journey and not something that should be solved at lightning speed. While I agree Tempering can be frustrating, the idea is that you might have to find items numerous times before you get the god rolls. At some point Blizzard has to draw the line and tell people they just need to play the game and not expect everything to be handed to them in the first week of new season.
What I would be ok with is the ability to not change if the affix roll is undesirable. So you could stick with a previous temper roll. Other than that I think it’s just part of the loot hunt and a case of better luck next time.
Yeah I agree with this. There are some tempers that are completely useless for your spec. If you’re going to limit rolls, at least give us the option to keep the previous one so we can live with a less than ideal temper but still good rather than risk using our last roll for a really bad temper.
I would add a very rare item which adds +1 tempering durability. Maybe it could be one of the endgame currencies. That way items wouldn’t feel “bricked” if you fail at tempering.
Alternatively something like Tokens from Diablo 2.
In my opinion tempering is just a miniature version of enchanting with a limit, we already have a system for rolling and exchanging one random affix with another, it’s called enchanting, we didn’t need another version
I think for tempering to truly be a crafting act it should be more targeted and work as follows:
Each manual should be a single affix, keep the 5 attempts, that way you always get what affix you are targeting you just might not get the best value in your five rolls, so your gear has the affix you care about the RNG is purely in the affix value and the risk/reward is trying to push your luck for a higher value or call it good enough. Crafting should make sense thematically.
My analogy here is if you were to craft a knife, you are going to get out a knife you don’t some how screw up and make completely different utensil like a spoon. Your knife may not be perfect but it still is functionally what you intended it to fundamentally be. Again true crafting is a targeted activity, where the quality of the outcome is the RNG the randomness should not be in the actual property/item.
With my way you’d never brick an item it just might not be perfect, so you’d have to get back out there and find a new item to use as a base to make something better but your other item is still functional and fills the role you want it to. I don’t think you should have infinite attempts to make it perfect because at that point in my opinion there is no point to finding loot and playing the game, but I do think a crafting system should enable you to target the quality you want.
I think its good the way it is. The only problem I had with it in the PTR was how often it would roll the same thing over and over. That doesn’t seem to be happening as much now.
