Rogue in particular feels like half of a class. I was telling myself that its ok because we’re only seeing the early beta abilities. But then I look at the UI for the skill tree and it looks complete. Are we really only going to be using the same 3 or 4 attacks all the way to level 100?
Please tell me there is more, this is far too barebones.
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I just had a look.
There are 23 ( if I’m not mistake ) skills on the Rogue Tree plus lots and lots of passives.
What 3-4 attacks are you talking about?!
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I’m talking about offensive attacks. There’s less than a handful of choices, for rogue it’s even cut in half between ranged or melee. This is nothing compared to the breadth of choices we had in d3.
There are 24 available. A lot more thatn 3 or 4. You can choose more than 6 skills to use and gear will provide you more as well. My level 25 sorc has access to almost every skill from gear and I constantly swap out a skill as needed/desired.
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Yeah, very much so.
There is a serious lack of skills for all classes.
And a lack of skill modification nodes for all skills. Essentially just 1 choice per skill is a joke tbh.
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Yes, offensive attacks.
You have : Puncture, Heartseeker, Forceful Arrow, Barrage, Rapid Fire, Penetrating Shot, Caltrops, Shadowstep, Poison Trap. This are mostly for Range. Plus other offensive passives and buffs, and such, plus the close combat ones.
I am…pretty ok with this.
In D3 most of the skill you were not even using them.
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at lvl 50 you’ll get acces to the Paragon Board. not sure how much it will alter the actual skills, but you’ll have many more choices for sure in there
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Legendaries that are not on the codex and uniques you find in WT3 and up is where this skill modification comes in. You knid of knew this since we’ve talked about it for quite some time in the old place.
1 Like
Half of those are utility abilities. Caltrops isn’t an attack. There are only a couple of choices for core attack abilities.
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It slows and damages. So it kind of is.
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Which would mean Blizzard is going against their stated goal of moving power back to the character, away from items.
Items are not skill modification nodes. They are items.
As someone who are quite stuck on a narrow definition of items in a certain P2W game, you should know 
Anyway, items also do not add more skills either, so beside the extreme lack of skill modifications, there is also the lack of skills overall.
Considering how significantly runes in D3 changed skills, you could easily consider D3 to have 70+ different skills per class.
Not so in D4.
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It’s just the beta, but it’s also telling you exactly what the game is going to be.
The skill tree is what it is and yes, you’re going to be using the same 3 or 4 attacks all the way to level 100. Majority of a builds potential won’t come from the skill tree at all, but from specialized items.
YOU can see D3’s design all over this game in terms of itemization and power scaling. Power doesn’t come from the talent tree at all. That’s just a way to unlock skills. DO not expect the game to feel different on launch. The systems are all in place and you can tell what they are going to be like.
I bet you anything majority of the skills in the game are useless without specialized items that enable their power level to feel worth while. You can see this design all over the place and you’d be quite familiar with it if you played D3.
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Never said power. Customization.
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Sure if you want to be pedantic every skill is an attack because it helps you to kill enemies in some way. But you know what I mean, there are only a tiny amount of true offensive abilities and I don’t believe that somehow legendaries are just going to add whole new complete attacks at some point. If this all there is to look forward to until an expansion I don’t even know what to think. People are going to get tired of it very quickly.
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Power and customization need to go hand in hand. Right now they don’t. All your power comes from items. You can see this in the way talent works.
If you have a low level item the damage from level 1 skill to level 2 increases by only like 1-4 points of damage, but if you have a higher level item it increases by a higher percentage. This tells you right there the weight of a skill is meaningless in comparison to the level of item you’re using.
The talent tree is a facade of meaningless choices outside of the few cookie cutter builds that work for leveling.
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I mean you get power from building up Fireball in the skill tree and gear. You get customization from the passives and gear like making them split, making them bounce, and making them explode on contact. They come from both.
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Again I’m not talking about power or modifications, I’m talking about just the amount of base abilities and they feel extremely limited. Doubly for rogue who has half in melee and half in ranged.
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The amount isn´t more or less than you had on classes in D3. Just checked out MNK and it have been 21 or so.
Bad things are being more or less forced to use the ultimate and definately the need to skill into a ressource-ability thanks to the new unlock-design. But overall the difference is there, it´s just made easier / more obvious for new players.
Yes there are also less possibilities to make the skills more unique or to change their element. Dunno why this got changed. But atleast we´ve more variety and possibilities with the legendaries now. The re-crafting and perks from the dungeons are a good thing.
Also Roque is meant to be played in melee + range. It´s no classical melee OR ranged class. You can still skill it that way, but being like e.g. “Öhhhh Rogue has only like 10 skills, because i don´t want to deal with melee.” is clearly a player-made issue.
I feel the same way. I wanted to play a melee rogue and I had basically 2 basic attacks and 2 core attacks to choose from. The sub-nodes for each skill felt very unimpactful. Wasn’t anything close to how the runes in D3 changed up the core skill, for example.
The remaining talents in the tree that I could choose from were more of a flavor. Like, what trap to use or what movement skill do I want?
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You only have 6 total abilities to choose from. Unless you want to use zero utility skills that means at most you could use 3 attack and 3 melee abilities which of course would neve be viable. In reality you’ll use 2 from one and 1 from another at best. None of which are that interesting and have little to no modification aside from adding invisible stat numbers.
Chakram in d3 had more interesting choices than the entire rogue tree.