Unreal expectation about builds variety

PC General Discussion
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This is an ARPG game first and foremost. It lacks alot of stuff but that`s not what i wanna talk about.

You people can not expect every build do do NM100 lighting-fast or clear uber lilith…
Not all builds need to clear 100, not all builds needs to clear uber lilith.

Take for exemple the “mighty” PoE…peope are making dedicated builds for ubers, that will be bad in t16 maps. People are making builds dedicated to farm t16 maps, that will not kill uber bosses.

Not every build will speed farm 5 Way legion at the same speed, you make a dedicated build. Not all builds will speed farm t16 8 mods map.

You can expect every class and skill to have the same performance. You build for the type of content you want to clear.

If there`s a sorc build that can clear 100 fast, you play that one. else, you either do it slow or not at all.

Stop with the diversity, all builds

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There is a big flaw in your logic…

Blizzard purposedly made changing builds a pain in the a…

If the design would be to change builds for specific content, we would have easy, cheap ways to change builds, like other games have

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not every game selling at minimum 70usd
and D4 are absolutely garbage tier at this price range

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Each class should have multiple builds that can clear uber lilith. Anything else is laziness.

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Too bad if your class’s one build requires some hard to get item.

The trouble is that with how they designed the game there isn’t even reasonable opportunity to experiment. It feels like there isn’t much build diversity because people want to get it right so as to avoid the ridiculous cost of respeccing. So they look up guides on what works and everyone ends up doing basically the same thing.

There should be no cost for respeccing. It adds nothing and just makes the game less fun.

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Probably people just want a game that is not like diablo xd

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Well the difference between PoE and D4 is that in PoE almost any skill can be build to do either T16 maps or ubers. There is no variety like that in D4, u are stuck with certain aspects to make a skill work at all for higher lvl content and this also means u really dont have any variety in gear options

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you’re right, PoE has dedicated builds for different purposes.

problem in D4 is, there are no different purposes.

it’s NMDs and thats it, sure uber lilith exists but there is like zero reward tied to it (achievement and a mountskin i think?) so once you’ve done lilith, there is zero point to do it again. and all you’re left with is NMDs.

and even there, it’s fewish builds that go high.

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Damage skills in D4 arent even useable without the devs making a legendary Aspect for it. Seems like pretty bad design.

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What makes it even worse is that these aspects are tied to ur items which leaves no room for an interresting itemization system or any sort of variety. Aspects belong in the skill tree in my opinion and should not use ur gearslots

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Well that’s expected for a brand new game that is designed to grow over the years.
POE didn’t come out of the box in it’s current state.

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Devs literal mantra was “play your way”…that set the expecation.

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There is a big flaw in your logic…

Blizzard purposedly made changing builds a pain in the a…

If the design would be to change builds for specific content, we would have easy, cheap ways to change builds, like other games have

how easy are you changing builds in PoE?
You need to level at least a skill from lvl 1 to lvl 20, make it 21 and then get all the supports for it.
and then, you need orbs to reset the skill tree.

Each class should have multiple builds that can clear uber lilith. Anything else is laziness.

No it should not. uber lilith is not for everyone(that includes me) i could not legit kill it. i had to resort to bonespear necro.

It feels like there isn’t much build diversity because people want to get it right so as to avoid the ridiculous cost of respeccing. So they look up guides on what works and everyone ends up doing basically the same thing.

There should be no cost for respeccing. It adds nothing and just makes the game less fun.

Most i paid, at lvl 100, after a few good resets, was 9 milions…i`m making around 1-2 milions in a single dungeon. run 4-5 dungeons to full respec? does not seem expensive.

Well the difference between PoE and D4 is that in PoE almost any skill can be build to do either T16 maps or ubers. There is no variety like that in D4, u are stuck with certain aspects to make a skill work at all for higher lvl content and this also means u really dont have any variety in gear options

lets not even talk about the amount of items and stuff youd need to do it with a “less perfect for ubers buid” you would strugle like hell…probably any build in diablo4 can do lilith too, with enough dedication.

you’re right, PoE has dedicated builds for different purposes.

problem in D4 is, there are no different purposes.

it’s NMDs and thats it, sure uber lilith exists but there is like zero reward tied to it (achievement and a mountskin i think?) so once you’ve done lilith, there is zero point to do it again. and all you’re left with is NMDs.

and even there, it’s fewish builds that go high.

thats a totally different issues, which i agree with completly. but PoE lunched with 3 acts, 3 dificulties and maps. thats it.

Devs literal mantra was “play your way”…that set the expecation.

You can play you way, no problem. But like in PoE, not everyone has to do uber bosses and tier 100nm dungeons.

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yes, true, PoE didn’t release with all its content is has right now,
but PoE also had like zero resources when it launched.

Blizzard is a billion dollar company, and D4 was in development for ~7years+ or so
while not fair to compare the content of a game that had a lot of patches to a new release, comparing d4 release state to PoE release state is equally unfair.

You also have to take into account how your competitors are doing:
what was there when PoE released? d3 was without RoS, so no adventure mode, it was resetting story zones to farm. d2 was the same boss MF / Baal runs as it has always been. titan quest / torchlight / grim dawn all had no real dedicated endgame activities.
so PoE being lackluster on release was par for the course of ARPGs back then.

but now?
D4 releasing with the activities of games from 10 years ago, when it’s competitors are actually offering engaging endgame content?
that’s not gonna cut it.
and looking at the resources it had available, it should also not be acceptable.

so saying “it’s only the release, it’s gonna get better” is just a sad excuse for the current state D4 is in.
i mean, it’s probably true, it will (probably) get better,
but it should’ve been so much better from the beginning.

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I completely agree. But we can’t change that now, so all we have is what it CAN be. Hopefully the devs pull their heads from the sand and make the game fun because as of right now, it has almost no replayability fun factor.

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Why is this an unreasonable expectation? Or put another way, why is it more reasonable (desirable?) that that some classes and/or skills do way more damage than others?

As someone else said, they advertised “play your way” ad nauseum. And I don’t understand how extreme imbalances in classes/skills makes a for a good game, or for that matter, why you think it’s not possible to achieve relative parity between them.

It’s all in the design of the game. Devs chose to assign the damage values they did to skills, chose to give certain status effects like Vulnerable to skills, chose to incorporate damage multipliers in damage calculation, etc.

IMO the root of the problems with D4 is that the devs just don’t seem to know what kind of game they want to make, and they very clearly don’t play test enough to understand what works/doesn’t work well. Ergo, constant patching from one week to the next, constantly nerfing then rebuffing … all AFTER RELEASE. D4 isn’t a finished product.

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i never said it`s a finished product, far from it.
i just said, that it will never be possible for all the classes to be balanced…there will be synergies that players will find that will “brake” the game.

even when the game will be finished, builds will not all be relevant, some will be good for something, some for other stuff, some will be bad. it`s how games work

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Yeah I think it’s expected that some skills will be better than others in specific situations. As a basic example, COLD mobs being vulnerable to FIRE damage, unarmored mobs being vulnerable to PHYSICAL damage, etc.

But with D4, it’s been all or nothing. Some skills/trees are just bad and/or useless.

There is simply no way this game should have been released. It’s only redeeming quality is the art and story telling. Give those teams raises. Replace the rest.

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Yeah I think it’s expected that some skills will be better than others in specific situations . As a basic example, COLD mobs being vulnerable to FIRE damage, unarmored mobs being vulnerable to PHYSICAL damage, etc.

Wrong genre here, and don`t even start that topic…imagine all the “why are cold mobs vulnerable to fire, while i play lighting” or "why are unarmored mobs easier to kill with physical damage than fire"etc. This does not belong here and it shows the bad feedback. Nope, never saw it (might be me) in any ARPG i played. Reduce armor, resistance, penetration, those are different.

It`s better it released even like this. No one forces you to play it now…come back when you think the game should have released and play then. Wait for the game to get better and then come back.
Consider this an OPEN beta.

I`m happy it released because i got to play it for what it is.

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Yeah, they should be able to though. I’m ok with some doing it better than others, but there’s no reason a fire sorc, a lightning sorc and an ice sorc shouldn’t be able to do to 100. Same goes for every class.

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