Unique versus Legendary

PC General Discussion
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One of the biggest problems with itemization in Diablo 4 is that many/most unique items are generally lacking utilization in any optimized endgame builds.

This is because most of the uniques aren’t better than the legendary aspects that most endgame builds revolve around. The developers that don’t play the game aren’t going to understand because the game generally looks good on paper.

I looked through Diablo 4 skills for all of the classes when the game first launched and I felt it looked good (on paper) overall, but it didn’t take long to realize that functionally, there is a lot of dead weight.

Classes aren’t really designed with a solid basic/core synergy framework and too much of every endgame build worth a damn relies heavily on aspects just to function. It takes too much effort to optimize itemization and skills and paragon min/max clusterf***ery to even know what the best combination is for the direction you’re going with a class.

There’s a real headache just altering your build because you have so many elements that have to change beyond just the skills. When your build is updated (either by yourself or someone else), you now hunt for new items because tempering bricks on bad RNG. New optimization may require a different stat priority that your current gear won’t allow.

So I feel the best way to fix this is to add a way to equip aspects separately from worn equipment (kind of like the vampire powers tab in season 2) so if you had a unique, you could still keep the aspect your build needs (via the aspect tab) and you’d also get the unique bonus you can’t get without equipping it.

I envision that the aspect tab would have the same slots (and rules) your worn equipment would have, but you would have to choose between the aspects on the worn gear or the ones imprinted on the aspect tab for each slot (this would also allow potential for dual builds for trash and bosses you could swap on the fly).

This would prevent you from getting more aspects than currently allowed, but unique bonuses would no longer conflict with aspects so uniques would always be better than legendaries for each slot as long as they provided a bonus that was applicable to your build.

This would make uniques much easier to use and balance without removing the vital aspects each build relies on. It’s just so disappointing that uniques are so often useless even though they should be better than legendaries. The only way to truly fix this issue is to remove the competition between unique bonuses and legendary aspects.

The other solution (not recommended) is to actually make the unique bonuses better than the aspects they replace, but that is a much, much more complicated fix and it would also negate the point of even having aspects if they succeeded in making uniques better.

Ultimately, I feel having both uniques and aspects for every slot is best because it doesn’t negate the benefit of aspects, but allows you to actually enjoy the fun of unique bonuses. Having to choose either or is never going to be good enough. So many endgame builds use zero uniques. Even those you think should be better… apparently are not, according to the numerous guides.

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Finding a (non uber) unique item feels bad. Except if you can use it for a build like Rabbit :rabbit2: :rabbit2: :rabbit2:Fire Rogue. Hooray for Scoundrels Kiss (awkward to control using controller but thats another story)

My current build does not benefit from any unique. The tempered gear is better than any unique for my build.

When i find a unique item:

  • no WOW-effect, no feelings, no excitement
  • i wonder why they are unique and look so boring (no cool optics/sound/not giving your projectiles any effect… like throwing flaming daggers etc…)
  • i keep one of each with the best rolls, just for the collection, some collect funko pop i collect 1 of each unique, but dont use one of them
  • i sell bad rolled uniques i dont collect at je local olde shoppe

Diablo 2: Ohhh nice unique bow. Im so happy. Me feeling better feeling stronk now. Im soooooo sooooo happy and excited about what will drop next.

Diablo 4: Ohh great eyes in the dark, ohh great eyes in the… i wonder what item of the small drop pool drops next. (already fell asleep)

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There are a few uniques that are useful but the list is very short; the list seems short for uber uniques as well.

Two nights ago I got my first Uber drop since the game launched (I play SSF) and it happened to be the Grandfather. So excited but it was short lived. I put it on, Crit Dam went from 500 to almost 1400. Man that’s exciting. Nope. After 1 Pit I swapped back in my Tempered Greatsword. Going back form ~1 to 2mil a hit to ~10 to 24mil. Sad. I still have it as a remembrance.

Back to what you are mentioning. I though something like Affixes being gems instead of hard-embedded would be interesting; and those that were embedded would be the unique abilities. I’m not sure how this would play out. I’m sure the team has talked about it when gear was first being developed. It would be interesting to get their thoughts and reasoning.

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I’m the opposite, I like playing the optimization game and fiddling with items/skills/paragon.

Once they introduce Set items and Runewords, things will indeed get more complicated but I welcome that.

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I like that uniques are contextually useful and not universally superseding legendaries. The usefulness of a unique comes down to player creativity instead of on paper stats. In fact, you often have to give up something to equip a unique and that’s not a bad thing IMO.

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Exactly that.

I have a full tab of uniques (one of each where I keep the best and salvage the rest).

I wish so much that using them would be better than generic legendaries, but the aspects are either or with the current system, which is why I suggested a means of allowing them to not compete.

I determined that trying to buff them to replace aspects wouldn’t work and even if it did, it would then replace aspects… so the only way I can think of where uniques will be good and fun is to make a system to allow you to equip aspects in an aspect tab (like vampire powers in season 2) so you would actually want to use the uniques and not just be like "oh yay… another piece of unique trash to compare with my collection and end up salvaging the lesser one…).

It’s also totally inconsistent right now because some classes use multiple uniques and others use none. This is because they didn’t balance the usefulness of uniques and aspects, but I don’t blame them for not being able to accomplish that because it’s ridiculously complex.

Again, even if they succeeded in making uniques better, it would still be either uniques or aspects, not both.

I suggest we be able to benefit from both. Balance as needed, but uniques should be fun… they just aren’t as it stands.

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Have to agree there.
Most uniques are only good for the collection purpose but have no real use.

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And that is all the share holders care about.

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I have yet to find a Harlequin Crest in Diablo 4 and it’s now season 4. I burn out when I hit the ceiling each season and the only thing left to do is repeat boring grind for only a very minor RNG optimization potential (not worth my time and no longer fun).

Even with the new resplendent sparks from the season journey, I only have 2/4 since I can’t seem to manage Uber Lilith and no uber uniques have dropped for me so far this season.

Tormented Uber Duriel has been 3 attempts, zero wipes so far.

Tormented Uber Andariel was 10 wipes, gear broken, didn’t attempt further.

I killed Tormented Varshan on my first attempt also.

Uber Lilith I have attempted at least 20 times with all 21/21 glyphs, all 925 gear with 4/12 or 8/12 masterworking in every slot with 3/3 stats and 2/2 temper bonuses for build, optimized aspects, only two slots with 2/3 optimal bonuses because greater critical strike chance, but bad RNG on getting 3/3. I have gotten to the second phase once… but that’s as far as I could go. My build just doesn’t have the survival and I don’t have the patience to keep trying. I consider playing another class or build, but for that much grind and no certainty of success, it just doesn’t seem worth it.

I can easily do Tier 100 nightmare dungeons and made it to Tier 76 in the Pit, but can’t manage to kill the boss to progress further.

Not only did I hit the ceiling this season, but for the first time, I didn’t manage to complete the most difficult content at least once. It’s really frustrating to fall short, but not be able to overcome the difficulty.

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Aspects are borrowed powers, no matter how you look on it. All D4/D3 itemization heavily relies on borrowed power system and that kind of itemization always will be garbage tier, unless aspects will be removed from gear.

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yeah, unique items are pretty bad this season but making aspects equippable regardless of gear would make regular legendaries useless again

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You’re just talking semantics and taking the issue out of context.

I don’t care about the lore or logic of “borrowed powers” as you call it.

I care that uniques are basically trash (with a few exceptions).

I care that even if you made uniques stronger to compensate for the legendary aspects they replace, you would only succeed in making legendary aspects trash. If they compete, one will be better than the other. As it stands, only a few are good, but it’s a wasted opportunity because all uniques seem cool and fun… they just aren’t when you realize they aren’t better (despite being more rare) than generic legendaries because as unique as they are… they are trash in reality (with a few exceptions).

I proposed the logical conclusion where I would like both to exist and not displace or compete with each other. That might require balancing to allow for all aspects you can currently have plus the uniques that benefit your build. Doing so would make loot more fun because uniques are more rare than legendaries and should be better. It seems such a waste to make rare loot that is never used.

Many uniques are not used by any build so they basically wasted all the time they spent creating them and polluted the drop tables with useless trash.

It’s just disappointing as things stand.

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you proposed another power creep and thats the problem.

As long as aspects will be on the gear they will always compete vs uniques and uniques will loose anyway, in most cases.

Therefore, it is obvious that the only correct solution would be to remove aspects from gear and add them either to the skill tree(where they should be from the beginning!) or create a special mechanism for them that allows you to select them.

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I large part is that the dev are set on making Unique items build enabling.

Unique items simply need to be unique and in doing so they can compliment a given build on their own. Reliance on skill bonuses and other non-basic stats like CDR gets in the way. Class restrictions get in the way also. D4 just isn’t design for Unique items as I envision them.

Even some so called Uber uniques can be dull to attain. I got a spear of Lycander this season and no other class I want to play can even use it let alone if a build can.

IMO Unique items have never been better than Diablo 1 or some CRPGs.

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I completely understand.

I managed to kill Tormented Greg and got that spark. I hear most people are leveling up new characters and getting sparks from the Iron Wolves; that is a long process though. I could breakdown my Granfathers but it’s just iconic to Diablo and my first Uber. I still need one more though… Maybe Varshan. Hum.

Edit: I’ve been stacking as much “martial vigor” as I can, it’s now up to 15 skill at 60 DR vs Elites.

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I feel the same.

Uniques don’t have to be build enabling. They should, however, be build supporting.

That’s why I proposed a system that would allow for both legendary aspects and uniques to not compete with each other. If you can have both at the same time, you no longer have to worry which is better and uniques will stop being trash (with a few exceptions).

What’s most sad is that many of the uber uniques are still… not better than generic legendaries for endgame builds. Let that sink in.

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The problem, as stated multiple times, is that the “Aspect” should actually belong inside the skill tree to begin with.

Just think of your favorite core skill, remove its corresponding Aspect… Is it still useful? No? That’s why Uniques (at least weapons) so often cannot replace the lost power of the Aspect.

Further exacerbating the problem is that each class is only limited to 2 or 3 weapon types, this further shrinks the potential audience of the unique weapon. How would you like a bow wielding necro? A sword-wielding Sorcerer? A staff-wielding Druid? Rogue hiding behind a shield? How about a “Throw-barb”?

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Adam Jackson addressed this Uniques vs Aspects:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAXYIljLe8I&t=1435s

Basically Blizz gives each character a pie which represents their 100% power. If any system/thing go beside, or on top, of each other, then they need to share a slice of the pie (e.g. this slice must be further sliced for X and Y), and if they don’t then they don’t need to share (e.g. this particular slice is either X or Y). Needless to say, X and Y in the former is weaker than X and Y in the latter.

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I think the whole legendary system was a huge mistake. They should have worked a lot of those attributes into more uniques and/or the skill trees. It kind of loses the thrill when you see/hear the shiny constantly dropping just because they want to give everyone a participation trophy(legendary)

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Ya i wonder how many uniques are actually use in the game,not very many im sure most are just mats.