That’s like trying your bicycle to a rack with 50 pieces of string.
It’ll deter some people but one person with a pocket knife won’t care. Then it’ll catch on and then everyone is carrying a pocket knife.
There’s ways to do things that don’t harm the quality of the game.
Drop rates and systems such as “smart loot” are 100% balanced around whether or not a game has open trade. If they were going to make D4 a primarily open-trade game, that’s something they would have needed to decide years ago, and drops would be far different than they are now. In an open-trade system, you’d be getting legendaries and uniques for other classes just as often as you are for your class, which you would then trade to other players for gear you need.
The game clearly has smart loot enabled – you don’t get rogue legendaries when playing a necromancer. Obviously, a drop system such as this was never intended for trade.
Thats a weak argument but I know what your trying to say. I stand by my comment of no moderation no trading.
Chances are they agree, or it would already be in the game. 6 years of development
Correction
ONE Diablo game is known for its trading economy and you listed that one 3 times.
D3 is not. At launch sure and then most of its lifespan it basically had no trade economy so I’d say 99% of lifespan without trade economy = not known for it.
Diablo didn’t even have trading. You just dropped and duped stuff.
Exactly. Anyone who is asking for trading is either directly asking for RMT knowing that’s the only possible outcome, or indirectly asking for RMT but legitimately ignorant to the fact that RMT trading is the only possible outcome.
There is no scenario in which trading is enabled without also enabling RMT for gear/power.
No moderation, no trading and no one can change my mind. Been playing online games for 20 years now I know what trading automatically enables.
I think the idea that the entire loot system was designed as an anti RMT measure is wrong. If it was it’s desperate and still not going to work so bad gamble.
It not only makes it less convenient, but it makes it less useful too.
If I can buy a boost to level 100, along with BIS gear, along with infinite gold? Then yeah, that’s pretty damn painful for any legit players
If I can only buy a boost to level 100 and infinite gold? Still pretty useful, but not quite as much
If I can only buy boosts? Again, still useful, but nowhere nearly as much
I mean, look at the RWT economy of D3, and compare that to the RWT economy of D2
In D2, you can buy practically anything. You can buy rushes, level boosts, BIS items/charms… there’s essentially nothing you can’t buy in that game. If me and you started new characters at the same time, but I spent up to $10,000 and you spent $0, I guarantee you I would be level 99 with BIS gear long before you. Probably before you even found a HR
In D3, you can buy level boosts, runs through Grifts, and then stuff like “100 legendary item drops”. These are definitely an advantage, but compared to D2? It’s nothing. It’s stuff that a regular player could achieve in a fairly small amount of time, just by joining random 4 man groups. I remember getting free level boosts just by asking in global chat sometimes when I wanted to try a season but didn’t want to spend time leveling up
There’s a lot more nuance to it than just “RMT exists, therefore we can’t stop it, therefore we should just allow all trading forever”
I doubt we will be seeing alot of Chinese farmers in d4.
I agree it is, but so too is the conversation more nuanced than “item trading only means RMT and any cost to make RMT less convenient is a price worth paying”.
Lost Ark has tons of bots and it has account bound items. It has an AH too, and some tradable materials and items, but the botting in Lost Ark was very rampant in part because the game is free to play.
Diablo IV is not, thus any time a botter is banned they pay $70 again. Which makes moderation of the game easier.
Well that’s my opinion, it’s not really a matter of nuance or lack thereof. I would be perfectly fine with absolutely no trading whatsoever, I’m sure some people would agree with me and I’m sure some others would disagree
D2 was an amazing game for sure, probably still my favourite game overall, but it wasn’t perfect. I think the whole trading system was probably one of its largest flaws personally. I enjoyed it a lot, especially when I was too young/naïve to even know about RWTing, but it’s certainly tarnished the game for me a little
To think that all those people I saw and thought “wow they have great gear” when realistically they were probably in some way effected by RWTing. Myself included really, most of the public baal/chaos games were ran by bots with the sole intention of RWTing
They really do need to have open trade. There will be nothing else to do in end game. Open trade is the bread and butter of ARPG loot hunters.
I think that Blizz should moderate the game better instead of eliminating all the things that came with trading that were a positive.
My first D2 experience after I did a solo play through was a friend going through several stashes to help me get gear and give me advice and it was a bonding moment. I remember feeling a love for the community too when I’d go into a free stuff room and take things then later drop my own stuff for others. It just felt like a community. One that isn’t really replicated by having random people just run past you in the open world. I don’t think all things should be sacrificed out of the fear of RMT. Rather, detection and moderation should be improved.
I don’t necessarily disagree with most of that… I enjoyed trade a lot too, but mostly when I was too naïve to realize how it was all fueled by RWT. Once I did realize that, I think that kind of soured those experiences I once had
Regardless… I don’t have faith in Blizzard to detect or moderate it. I actually don’t know of any game that’s good at this type of thing, from my experience pretty much every game out there is filled with it (assuming it’s relatively popular and has online/trading capability), and Blizzard has been particularly bad at it in the past
Thank you, I agree 100%, and a great contribution to the discussion. Not once have I EVER used JSP, or RMT as those in this thread repeatedly refer to and accuse of.
I play for end-game, and the feeling of accumulating wealth and trading, interacting with people. I also play for leaderboards as well. I enjoy every aspect of the game to its fullest. But I really enjoy the trading aspect of ARPGS and wealth accumulation.
To contradict those that are saying “oh well with uniques and legendaries tradeable ppl would just RMT/JSP them”… to be honest, without them tradeable…you could argue those that find those GODLY ancestral rares will 100% RMT/JSP them, because there is nothing else to trade for, no currency, and there is a much more scarce pool of available tradeable items, so it would drive the price even higher in theory for those that use those sources…
Trading destroyed D2. People play D2 for 20 years because they made a living out of it. Thats why teleport hasnt been nerfed. Its a one skill game. No trading!
Trading is what kept D2 alive.
I play to kill stuff and find cool loot on their dead bodies. I do not want to gear up via flipping trash and then buying it. That would absolutely wreck the game. I hate in POE when i crack and buy a 6-link ect. It feels awful and knowing I can bypass the grind is a demotivator. I was so happy when they got rid of trading in D3. Finally stuff started to drop because they didnt need low global drop rates to counter market spam of good stuff.
Remember D3 during RMAH? The rare leggo dropps and its beyond trash…cant even sell it…well…better buy some yellows on the market if you want to gear up…cuz its not dropping if your casual…
Oh and if you are saying trading kept D2 alive, it did, it was all RMT traders. RMT traders ruined the game, and then people say those people kept the game alive by driving out normal players and turning it into a full time job.
Oh. So you just want to farm and sell top items for money. Nah fam. Get a job.
If that sounds like the type of game you want, and would pay for, we have very different tastes.