I think what made D2 itemizatiom great was that things werent scaling off of base weapon damage*multipliers system.
D4 so far seems to be a hybrid between D3 and D2, but what i really dont want is my + skiller rare being replaced in 15 mins with a blue drop that has higher weapon damage.
Problem is there are soo many modifiers and i think once people figure out whats best, 90% of all affixes will be useless because its still the same system of base*multiplier unlike a D2 system.
I never liked runewords or charms in D2. But I want my SOJ to be bis at level 30 and level 99. I dont want to find ancestral SOJ, prime SOJ or whatever SOJ with higher stats making my earlier unique find obsolete. Thats what I did not like in D3. Finding a legendary in 69? Useless.
What this system will do is damage numbers going into quintillions just because of stat padding and this scaling system.
What do you think
23 Likes
D2 itemization was dogpoo designed for 1-2 button gameplay that required 1000+ Bhaal runs. Got old less than a week. No thanks. PC gaming has evolved alot after year 2000 pinnacle of gaming experiences.
17 Likes
Yeah definately⌠I love the pre-lod item system where rares were kings except for a few uniques here and there which offered stats that were not in the rare item pool.
In LoD the original runewords were nice because they were not too OP and the uniques of LoD brought more options to the table⌠sadly good rares became way too hard to obtain for most slots and diminished.
1 Like
I mean, I disagree with you. I want items to feel impactful. I want to be constantly hunting for better items and have a progression curve that feels satisfying. I never want an item I find at low level to be good at max level.
But youâre also not wrong for liking what you like.
5 Likes
Example of a dude who knows nothing about D2⌠most of us didnât run Baal for loot⌠he was mostly ran for exp (of course he did drop all the loot also, but more efficient ways for that)
9 Likes
I donât want to know anything about less than 1% drop rates gameplay from 90âs. I stick with D4.
2 Likes
I loved old D2 (pre-lod) I found a helmet in Normal Act4 which was still on me in Hell Act4⌠it didnât mean I couldnât find a better one⌠definately could⌠it wasnât perfect roll but it was a very good roll.
Never did find a better one myself⌠of course there were better ones up for trade if I wanted⌠but it was good enough so I rather focused on more important slotsâŚ
2 Likes
Diablo 2âs itemization always felt kind of hollow to me. I loved the game, but it felt so crappy that as a caster there was literally only one stat I could get that impacted my skills. And that the only stat that REALLY mattered was vitality, outside of getting enough strength to equip gear.
So Iâm personally happy we have a more robust stat system where every stat has some relevance in different ways and that things scale in a more dynamic fashion.
But⌠again, its all subjective. I like constantly getting upgrades and constantly feeling like thereâs progression in terms of items. You feeling differently does not make you wrong and youâre certainly more than welcome to provide your feedback to that effect as well.
But that being a major issue for you might mean this wonât be the right game for you, since theyâre probably not going to change something that fundamental to the game this lateâŚ
2 Likes
I see your point but the issue i see is that most of those affixes wont matter anway as people figure out min maxing the entire thing. So yes, dexterity on your sorc will help with the resource generation but it would be so small - wont matter no matter what.
Whatâs best will vary based on build. For example:
Overpower % damage bonus for builds focused on overpower procs.
Vulnerable % damage for builds focused on vuln procs
Crit % chance rolls are lower than crit vs vuln rolls which forces choices
Main stat damage bonus is lower than flat +%dmg vs close/distant enemies, but main stat has other benefits
The list goes on. They did a great job providing choices that feel meaningful in terms of item rolls.
1 Like
Itâs because low level items in D2 were still good and usable.
In d4, just like D3 you have to constantly replace your gear to keep up with scaling difficulty. Items in D2 could last for many levels before you had to replace them. Thatâs simply not the case in D3 or D4. If youâre not constantly replacing your gear your power level shrinks in comparison to the enemies.
The talent tree and stats allocation in D2 actually made your characters stronger. Thatâs not really the case in D3 or D4. We have no way to become more powerful outside of acquiring items with special abilities that make builds work.
4 Likes
So I donât see the complaint. EVERY game ever, once min/maxed, most stuff becomes bad. Even D2. Literally every game has that happen.
If you min/max to the extreme, the majority of what is out there stops mattering. Because thatâs what min/maxing does. No matter your system, that will always be the case.
BUT having a robust and interesting itemization system allows people who are in the tier below the min/maxers to have more flexibility. The people who dontâ care about perfect min/maxing but want something unique that can function decently. And I think d4âs system will have a pretty robust selection of effective, viable options that function in distinct ways.
3 Likes
With how our skills synergy works it will be different depending on your build at least.
An example is my rogue, I chose skills that work around vulnerability. I can choose stats that buff that and close-range damage. With another build, those stats might be useless but they are perfect for me.
There is nothing you can really do about some affixes not mattering as much or something being the best for your build. Itâs exactly the same in every other game made, WoW, PoE, D2, and everything else. Itâs just how math works.
1 Like
Iâve spent 2k+ hours in D2/D2R, and running proc. gen RNG maps, for thousands of Andy/Meph MF runs just to find perfect items for what? After youâve completed UBERS/Hell Baal for exp runs/and max level, there virtually is no other end game content. âTradingâ is the epitome of D2 itemization, you are not acquiring the BiS gear for progression into say something like Greater Rifts in D3, where you actually USE the gear and power youâve acquired, end game in D2 is farming hundreds of MF runs over and over and over and over. There is no purpose, and this is where modern systems come into play, and where D2 andys cannot accept reality.
6 Likes
There was several stats⌠Element skill dmg % and -resist %. (LOD)
Then mana + life, str, dex was good to have depending on other gear options.
In 1.10 they brought Insight runeword that gave you huge manaregen â no need to think about your mana pool⌠=> energy. Same patch they brought mana potions to vendors⌠infinite mana potions.
Before 1.10 many sorcs did invest energy as well. Almost every sorc used Energy shield which is dmg to manaâŚ
So yeah things changed to more simplified after 1.10.
With D3 for example I really hate that we get good loot but hey we have this better version of it⌠oh and the third better version of it. So getting that first one is really not satisfying at all.
2 Likes
If you skip the trading and play self found in D2 the game progression will slow down hugely⌠you will probably never find the BiS gear during the ladder seasonâŚ
A lot of people skip the ladder reset by using the virtual currency and waiting for bots to flood the market with itemsâŚ
If your goal is to get something âperfectâ early, then its not satisfying. But for me, I like the idea of gradually improving my character and constantly getting small item upgrades over time.
So I really appreciate the âNice I hit level 30 and got this small upgrade. Then I get another small upgrade. Oh hey I got a power that buffs one of my abilities now.â - the gradual progression is fun for some players. Thatâs the style this game is catering towards.
Example of a dude who tries to be elitist and does not even provide 1-5 examples why D2 was so âdeepâ. It was not. WoW killed it in 2004 biu bau bou!
I think youâre right.
Unique items were always supposed to be build-complete items. That was the reason for so many D2 unique items having well⌠unique purposes.
Youâre not going to get good numbers out of this itemization. Itâs just silly D3 masquerading as a D2 game. Thereâs no concept of how good a character should be unlike D2 that definitely had a ceiling.
Didnât say perfect⌠just getting normal legendary became âworthlessâ since they introduced Ancient legenaries.
Some lazy whiners whined so much that first they increased drop rates of legendaries couple times and then hugely increased it and made Ancient the rare drop⌠until power creep happened X10 and we got more difficulty levels and also Ancients drop pretty often.
Loot just became boring⌠in that game.
I remember how it felt great to find sets and legendaries in RoS release when they were rare. Also getting into Torment difficulties where they dropped wasnât just a cakewalk. You had to perfect your rare items and try to get a few legendaries here and there to start surviving there.
Same thing happened in WoW⌠you can play the easy mode and get the good loot and if you have time you can chase for the better versions in higher difficulties but essentially they are the same loot just different numbers. Itâs just lazy design.
When WoW Classic came out ⌠getting those epics and even rare items felt pretty good again. At the end of Naxxramas you were just âdamn I only need this one item and then I have everything I need from hereâ and that actually happened in every raid tier. If the loot was easy to get and then you only hunt for some minor stat upgrade⌠I would not bother it since itâs not gonna make that huge difference.
I think D2 killed itselfâŚ
LoD released in 2001 and there was 1 patch and 1 ladder reset from 2001 â 2005. The game got filled with dupes and hacked items and whatnot⌠quite a lot of people lost interest.
A lot of people came back after 1.10 launch.