The reactions to the dev video are giga cringe

Sorry, but not sorry. What do people smoke to justify such a behavior? Judging on a 10 Minute video is nothing, but plain underminded. The video shows 2 human beings playing a game they put tons of effort into, who the heck cares if they are playing like a god gamer or not? “BuT thEy aRe dEVs oF SaiD gAme!!!11” - Yes, they are talking about it, they are Level Designers, which is a small portion of the game and you know what? They did an amazing job! All the design teams freaking nailed it, the tone of the game, the setting, the world building is amazingly good. Period.

That said, there is obviously more to a game than just the World Design, and also those teams did good jobs for the most part. Almost everyone agrees that the game is amazing in the beginning, maybe some level experience for some classes was not optimal, but overall it was great. The problems start later on and this is typical for ARPGs overall, the problem here is that the Leads and Directors/Project-Managers seem to not play the game until then. It’s their overall vision that needs to work well together and it does in the early levels, during the campaign and as long as your are building up your character.

Given that, at a certain point you reach the “end game” and this is all about finding better loot and optimize the efficency and you just stop caring about the world and level design, because you experienced it already enough times. Sounds hard, but as good those dungeons might be designed, at some point all you want is pass them as fast as possible, that’s the nature of the endgame loop. The later D3 nailed it, you had random generated dungeons you blasted through to get your next upgrade. You just didn’t care about the environment anymore and everything that slows you down is annoying, because you loose time in your grind for no reason.
D4 doesn’t offer much of this; The game slows you down because it falsly assumes you still want to enjoy the atmosphere of the dungeons… While doesn’t offer you enough items to hunt for, especially for other build items, because even if you find them, you don’t look foward to respec 225 paragon points one by one. They completely forgot about the other end of the player base, those that stick to the game past Campaign and of course everyone defines it’s own “max efficency”, but in general the players that stick longer than the early phase are looking for the item hunt and this is as stated extremly lacking in this game.

But it has nothing to do with single developers that might be “bad” at their “own” game… It just doesn’t matter, the only thing that matters is, that the Leads probably refused to learn from other teams that worked on past titles or never really learned deep enough about the genre they are creating.

Sorry, but those postings an the downvotes on that dev video made me feel so ashamed of people claiming to be “gamers”. You are going for the wrong - the innocent people here, just stop it.

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Just what we needed. A brand new discussion regarding this video.

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yay another white knight making yet another post about this damn video

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You are welcome :wink: The video is mostly the starting point, but it also applies to other threads going for the “devs”. The anger is sent to the wrong people and the video is just the perfect example for this.

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I don’t care how they were playing, that’s whatever to me. However to say they did an amazing job with dungeon design, I fail to see why you say that. Don’t get me wrong, the dungeons look cool but the reality is they basically made 6 tile sets and dungeons just have these 6 tile sets in different order.

I wouldn’t call that amazing when they had 10 years of development time.

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Fair enough, after seeing those dungeons over and over and over and over and over I agree with you 100%. That doesn’t invalidate that they are well done. The mandatory permanent repetition makes it feel boring and cheap and that’s what I wanted to point out, having such levels is great, they look cool and they work well… In the early game, but the more you play them, the more you start to hate them.

That’s not the Level Designers fault per se, it’s the fault of the Game Direction that didn’t put proper dungeon generation into the game. Of course that doesn’t fix the problem completely, but it helps a lot

Another defender joins the ranks.

Save the women!

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Not sure how you think massive backtracking, terrible sigil affixes, and annoying objectives is “an amazing job”. Not sure you understand their job duties correctly.

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Because they are game devs, designing the very game they are playing. Should we not expect them to have experience in how the game works and how to play it? The way they played made it clear beyond any doubt that these two devs cannot possibly have played the game for more than an hour tops. Hell, Im doubtful if they even had played the game at all prior. It was so embarrassingly bad.

If this how Blizz devs understand their own game then it actually explains a lot of things for me.

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You are cringe.

That video was also cringe. Objectively.

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This is what happens, if Level Designers creates level and quest Designers throw some half baked quest objectives into it and forget to put something rewarding for you into that dead end. As a developer you get a task, that your project manager provides you, most of the time in an abstract way, because the “thing” it will be put into is not yet created/finished/whatever

Again, this is a problem since the genre was born, so the better question is, why would a game director not advise on this? Yes, devs also have responsability, they need to report back if something seems not well thought through, but it’s based on the work clima if that is possible or not and it is also a matter of available time. The game is for sure not in a state that it could be, given that it has 10 years of development. We don’t know the details, but it’s pretty clear that a lot of things went wrong. And at some point you don’t have the time to sort such things out, you need to move on, crunch through it, make it work, take what is already there that might had a different idea back then when it was created. It’s bad and we as customers can complain about that with any right. But we also don’t need to be insulting or judging game play, because it doesn’t help anyone

The video shows why Blizzard is going down hill as game development studio. Its filled with 9 to 5ers who really aren’t gamers.

Those are the people who SHOULDN’T be making games. End of discussion.

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One might have assumed 10 years would have been enough to “sort such things out”. Especially if you’re a very experienced game studio with enormous resources available and who have been in the business for decades…

One could think that and it would be of course cool to see the devs rocking the game, but that’s not important to me, actually. As stated in the video the level designers have an architectural background which helps a lot in this fields, but the level alone doesn’t make the game, you are busy with your daily work and you just don’t know what the character designers, monster designers, quest designers, xyz designers do, you do your part and in the end it gets composed together and if it’s well planned it will work out. Of course you can’t forsee any weird combinations that just doesn’t work at all, that’s what game testing and the overall vision of the lead is for, but as we can see this didn’t work well overall. I don’t defend this game at all, I think it’s playable, but not worth the price we paid in some aspects and we desperately need fixes to a lot of things. However the devs that are working on that right now are not so much to blame, I am 100% sure they did their best and saccrificed a lot to ship that thing as good as possible… The real problems originated somewhere else for sure.

E:

Normally yes, as said above - A lot of things went terrible wrong in those 10 years, without any doubt and the customer anger is totally understandable. However it doesn’t require us to be mean. We can blame Blizzard, or better Actiblizzard for this as an instance, not single developers that might not play a lot in ther freetime

No having an architectural background doesn’t help. By far one of the worst aspects of D4 is dungeon design. It also doesn’t seem to be too much up to them either as they said they had to go by “standards” which seem to be bad standards.

It originated in the Blizzard game studio. The fact that they could choose to release this embarrassing gameplay video tells me all I need to know about Blizzard and the state of D4. I honestly think I must actually be a naive fool not to have seen this long before; but this video just really spelled it out for dumb gullible fools like me.

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I was talking about the visuals, maybe that was not emphasized enough, game play wise especially later on they indeed suck - That wasn’t tested properly.

They look amazing, they play okay the first attemts and you start to hate them very quickly, no doubt about that

The one think you can’t knock the game on is the art, unless you are talking about druid armors.

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But he said “giga cringe” in the title, you know it’s going to be good!

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Art and design are two different things champ. They stated they made the cursed shrines - that is not “art” that is designing a feature and implementing it.