I hope they never change it. People need to stop valuing their 2-3 hours a day like some hardcore gamer who’s down on their luck with no item. If you’re a casual now it’s fine to admit it. Stop whining about your crappy character
That is what I dont get. Enchanting can have unlimited rolls but temper cant? Why? What is the logic behind that thought process? I can change a stat that is already there as many times as I want but I have a limit on new stats? Makes absolutely no sense to me.
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There’s losing to mechanics and there’s “losing” to RNG
Losing to mechanics is fun. That’s what the chess analogy is like, a certain set of rules and mechanics enforce strategy and reward the player with superior strategy (if it’s competitive)
Losing to RNG is not fun. To relate that to the chess analogy it would be like adding a 20 sided dice roll to every move in chess. Imagine losing your queen because it failed it’s roll to beat their pawn. That would be stupid.
Then there’s actual “I win button” gaming. Immortal sorc, bash barb, heartseeker rogue. Due to bad math a handful of specific builds greatly outscale everything else every season until they nerf those specs with more bad math and prop up some new lame specs with even more bad math. In every game there is a large portion of the community that lives and dies by the I win button, and thus the game becomes balanced around it and you have to play the “I win button” or play a different game. This is probably the actual biggest problem with this game and does not quite seem to be changing next season, just different specs getting propped up.
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Because tempering stats are far more powerful than enchanting?
loosing to RNG might work in some games though. for example if we take Poker game where you can have really bad RNG/hands, yet better player will have better results overall and still will win more tournaments etc.
in arpgs bad RNG typically means more grind, not some extra hard mode to sustain for period and get rewards. if they can invent how to outplay RNG with skill not grind - that would be interesting.
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An immediate generation…Who don’t know how to lose or be contradicted. I always play with my own builds, and I always try to improve. I only reached NM 100 after 3 seasons. And I still die for butches. But that’s the game. Lose…lose…evolve and improve.
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But should this be considered during game design? Or rather when choosing what game is suitable for your time?
This genre of game takes a lot of time.
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Sure.
BUT…right now you could go 100+ hours (even doing the right things) without seeing a useful 2 GA item for your build…let alone a 3GA or a +skill rank item.
So, when you finally find one and brick it and there is nothing you can do, that’s super lame.
It means if you’re a normal person with a life you could go an entire season without getting one character well turnt up in a satisfying or exciting way.
AND the random casino element to the drops can makes it feel hopeless (and a real d*k punch when every multi-GA item you pick up turns out to be something useful annnndddddd shadow resistance for the 100th time)
This steers the people with lives to go buy stuff and infalte the economy.
Tempering fix is super simple:
There should just be a costly reset button like masterworking, and i agree you should get the choice to keep the current temper.
AND/OR
IMO They need to turn up the 2+ useful GA drop rate in end game.
OR…just allow the melting down of 100s of legendaries to bump an affix to GA status. Refine - Temper - Masterwork.
OR…and here is my favorite idea - just allow crafting an item from scratch with whatever affixes you want, and make it super costly.
Not asking for anything to be ‘easy’ really.
BUT i believe people who don’t mind grinding, but don’t want to play a casino simulator, could use a little more light at the end of the tunnel.
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It’s sad that there even has to be a thread about this. Like going back to kindergarten to teach the children in adult bodies the basics. Don’t forget to look both ways before crossing the street because you might get hit by a vehicle. Actually, nevermind…
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Why do people continue to say ignorant stuff like this?
It has nothing to do with needing anything immediately. At all. And I lose plenty in pits. So can you explain your position better?
Most of the crying, and frankly completely ignorant, insulting,better than you attitude comes from those who love to defend the crappy mechanics of tempering. OP not included.
Same,64 in a few months. Game is way to easy. So much for the grandpa and casual player theory people keep talking about 
I am from the generation where you had to grind experience to kill the boss to get the item to grind the harder area for equipment needed to survive the next boss to get the weapon to progress the story until you got the the final area and beat the game.
This game has the grind with lots of RNG roadblocks to progression and artificial difficulty in an infinite scaling endgame which cannot be beaten where your progress is reset every 3 months when new mechanics and items are introduced. Flavour of the month builds reign supreme behind a wall of RNG that some players will never get to experience. Next seasons RNG is not guaranteed either and the player is forced into that same uphill climb again starting from zero.
What I miss is games where you played well enough to earn something, put in a grind that was sufficient to improve those powers and items and had the satisfaction of progression from start to finish. Games these days you have only the satisfaction of getting lucky.
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This is an endless debate.
People are just used to watch their favourite streamers, and think immediately “hey, they got it. so i should get it”.
It is just like the debate about the endgame. People were running through the campaign, straight to endgame, letting some streamer develop the build for them and having them enjoy the game with the cool aspects of a game (finding new uniques, buildideas, farming routes, skillsets, tweaks, tricks and whatnot) and then:
d4ded, no endgame. game too short.
People will never get this. There are of course people that get this, but you know who i am writing about. They let somebody else play the game for them, PAYING THEM TO DO SO, and then whine why there is nothing to do for them.
Tempering is good as it is, and will be “better” (or rather easier) with the “+1temper per GA”-setting. But that still wont be enough and the whining will continue.
This will never change.
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I don’t mind losing some items. I don’t want the game to end in 1 week. I’ve played HC and lost every character. I don’t want to reset the item, I hope this never happens. And if the item is blocked you can still use it in another build, the meta always changes. I keep items with good temper even without blocking it. If the first temper came at maximum blizzard damage , I stop there. And I keep the item. Even if it’s not my construction.
Why should the game be designed around you not having enough time to play?
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You win. I’ll take it back
I’ve been playing since the first day this game came out, including day 1 of season 4, and my build isn’t nearly complete. You can complete an endgame build in one week?
You haven’t experienced an item that hasn’t rolled what you wanted yet?
I comes from d3. They catered to every player there, now everyone expects participation trophies
There’s no way this is true.
After 6 weeks …
You have all of your aspects, yes?
You have the non-Ubers your build needs, yes?
You have hit 100 and filled out your Paragon board, yes?
You have leveled each glyph to 15 to maximize your board’s potential, yes?
You have 925 gear with (at least a majority of) the affixes you are looking for, yes?
You have tempered this gear with (at least a majority of) affixes you are looking for, yes?
If not, that’s on you, dude, because that takes like 10 hours.
If so, then YOUR BUILD IS COMPLETE.
It may not be perfect, with uber uniques and max aspect rolls in each slot and greater affixes on every piece … but calling it anything short of ‘complete’ is an eyeroll.
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It took me 6 weeks and 6 characters of grinding to finally be able to have a chance in those T80+ pits. Had I followed a guide maybe I could have cut that time in half. Every one of my 6 characters stalled from levels 80-100 and a few of them are still wearing equipment that dropped at level 55 that I have yet to see an upgrade for or have bricked several potential upgrades trying to roll a particular augment.
The RNG finally started to break in my favour yesterday with a Shako and a grandfather drop even though 3 of my favourite characters don’t really benefit from or can’t equip the GF. The Shako is a duplicate drop from the one I used sparks to make.
Tempering and MW are an entirely different beast, but at this stage in prior seasons I have equipment with all the desired stats I needed just not in the best rolls for each character. This season I can get 3/5 easily but 4/5 and 5/5 items has become a struggle. And to get them with GA near impossible. And then the extra layer of MW on top of that. At least the final layer can be reset, but it’s still a gamble.
Still in my opinion this is to steep of a mountain to climb for content that only lasts 3 months. A player hit this hard with bad RNG gets turned off the game, and that’s not a good thing.