The future of the game (Softcore Vs Hardcore)

I would have posted this as feedback in the PTR’s in-game UI, but there’s a length limit, and it might also spark some discussion among players. So… here it is.
Warning :slight_smile: ! The following thoughts might be controversial!

This is a broader concern about the game’s future. Over the past year, I’ve invested countless hours in both Soft Core (SC) and Hard Core (HC) modes. The reason I enjoyed HC more isn’t just because of its inherent difficulty but because of a fundamental issue with SC: there’s virtually no punishment for failure. You can make mistakes without any real consequences. On the other hand, if you’re not a professional player or streamer, the penalties in HC are extremely harsh. For instance, if you die during an SC’s Hell Tide, your Cinders are halved. In SC, there should be a consequence, like being banned from the current Hell Tide and only being allowed back once it resets. This would still be nothing compared to the impact of death in HC.

Infernal Hordes and Aethers: In SC, a strong friend can carry you through 7 or 8 tiers, even if you’re just level 1. You can stay dead the entire time, chat, or even snack, and still collect a wealth of high-value materials that would otherwise be out of reach. In HC, this isn’t an option—if you can’t survive, you’re out. At the very least, Infernal Hordes shouldn’t reward you with aethers while you’re dead.

Torment Unlocks Should Be Solo Achievements: Unlocking Pit 20, 35, and 65 should require a solo effort on at least one character per season to gain access to the corresponding tier. This should apply to both SC and HC. While powering up alts with the help of friends should still be allowed, it should come with the condition that at least one of your characters has already unlocked the level solo. In HC, this doesn’t just apply to alts but also to new characters created after a recent death, making this even more crucial. The process of powering alts and new characters should also be made easier—for example, by shielding Pit entrances from monsters to protect HC players, who face far greater setbacks if they die compared to SC players, who face nothing! These unlocks should always be tied to the highest Pit level you’ve soloed during the season.

I think removing the cheat death “elixir” was a good idea. That being said, I’m part of a clan—a fairly relaxed one where SC players are welcome—but the clan’s original focus was HC. Despite this, even our clan leader has stopped playing HC since the removal of the cheat death elixir.

The current state of the game is better than it used to be, especially with T4 monsters being no joke. However, building a strong and confident HC character has become much more challenging. Since SC players face no real consequences for dying, they likely don’t mind, but in HC, the penalties are significant. This makes it hard to avoid resorting to pure glass cannon builds, which is becoming increasingly difficult to escape.
I believe the cheat death effect could be reintroduced as part of an aspect. This could provide a more balanced trade-off—do you choose cheat death or go with Tibault’s Will, for example?

Yes, I know—super HC players might say, “Just go play SC, mate.” But that’s precisely my point. SC lacks challenge and doesn’t offer the same level of engagement. What I’m trying to illustrate is the difference between watching white sharks on Youtube from the safety of your chair and actually being thrown into the water with a scuba mask. And by the way, we’re giving you fins so you can at least try to keep up a bit! :smile:

Rewards. Defeating Lilith has become relatively easy now. I nearly defeated her in pre-season one when the game launched, but after hours of retries, I ultimately failed. That level of difficulty felt extreme for an ARPG, but the recent updates have made her more accessible. I’m not referring to broken builds that let you bypass all mechanics but rather to improvements like being able to see the projectiles chasing you in phase 2.

What I find puzzling is how players can be invited to a group, die instantly, stay dead throughout the fight, and still receive rewards when the boss is defeated. While I understand that loot drops are a core mechanic, it seems unfair for rewards like titles, sparks, and mounts to be given to players who weren’t active at the end of the encounter. While it may not need to be a solo achievement, at the very least, the rewards should be reserved for players who are still alive when the boss falls.

Lastly, I have mixed feelings about this. I’m uncertain whether what I’m about to suggest is worth considering, as it might be another attempt to adjust HC due to SC’s lack of engagement. If SC were more engaging, I might not be as inclined to play HC.

So here it is: I understand that in HC, a character’s death means the permanent loss of all earned experience and glyphs, and that’s essential to maintaining the integrity of HC. However, I’m questioning why the equipment also has to be lost.
At the start of Season 5, I was rushing too much and chose Barb instead of the easier Sorc, which led to two deaths—first at level 60 and then around level 70. No big deal; I restarted for a third time. However, by the time I reached level 90, I had accumulated a significant number of gem fragments but found myself unable to craft any rubies due to the losses I had sustained.
The same logic applies to extremely rare loot. While experience can be regained, the luck required to obtain rare items may not be so easily repeated.

1 Like

Ya know d2 had this funny mechanic where if you died in softcore you had to do the run of shame naked as the day you were born or quit and lose xp/gold

Still works like a charm too :joy:

Thank the almighty RnJesus d2 still kicks butt

I get what you’re saying. I have more experience in playing Softcore than Hardcore but lately I had been enjoyjng Hardcore too.

However I really doubt any of your Softcore suggestions will be implemented. I can already the number of Softcore players complaining about being penalized for dying. They don’t want any of that.

I think the biggest challenge in SC is being:

  • the fastest in XXX challenge
  • the mostest in XXX challenge
  • the lowest in gear requirements in XXX challenge

It’s basically pumping the most broken, glass cannon builds for the most YouTube clicks so casual people can copy it and feel godly.

S6 and PTR 2.0, for SC, feels the same in terms of difficulty I do like T4 difficulty because it applies to everywhere and not just pit.

I think the upcoming difficulty changes though will be more significant to HC since there is more difficulty if you are not geared for survivability. Things I don’t like in HC:

  • People buying and selling Capstone carries. It’s no different with what you are complaining against SC being carried by friends. Capstone is easy in HC even for me who is used to SC.

  • People grouping in XXX content. It should be the same parameters you set for SC. They shoukd clear it first solo before being allowed with groups.

  • People dying in HC and asking for power leveling to make up for the lost. I feel HC should be more strict with this. This is the cost of dying in HC so you have to suffer the penalty too in releveling.

I think bringing back that cheat death elixir is a bad idea. I am also not in favor with the scroll of escape. Hardcore should be hardcore when it comes to death. There is no escape unless you kill or die.

So if I may summarize what is being said here: “please bring us the SSF mode”

Yes, I understand that these scenarios are unlikely. However, my main point is to find a balance where HC remains extremely challenging but SC is still a valuable and engaging option. Currently, SC feels like a joke, which makes me feel compelled to play HC. This isn’t an issue I encounter with games like Last Epoch, where both modes offer a satisfying experience strictly depending on the level of challenge you are seeking.

I believe the game is significantly unbalanced if I have to turn to HC to find a challenge, just to ensure that the excitement and enjoyment of a new season don’t wear off within three days of its launch. :slight_smile:

After losing 2 chars to a controller bug an getting basicly 1 shotted once or twice and losing the cheat death potion I feel hardcore was just made less fun over time (for me).
On top of that cause you got all these GA’s, and leveled glyphs losing a char is double punishing.

I deleted all my HC chars before the summer and remade all SC chars. Been having more fun. Wish I still (wanted to) played HC but alas.