It is not exactly like that. By everything do you also mean, elites and Bosses? If you can one-shot basic enemies in T3, you can do it in T4 reasonably fast. The only true big jump in difficulty are Tormented Bosses.
The power needed to kill everything very quickly in TX is equivalent to killing everything very slowly in TX+1.
It doesnāt matter where that power comes from.
Itās not hard, just slower.
My damage doesnāt increase as quickly, and my power ceiling is lowerā¦ but all of that doesnāt affect the power difference between T1 and T2, or T2 and T3.
To be specific, Iām talking about one or two hit kills an Elite. And Iām talking about knife danceā¦ which is about 4 hits per second (approx)ā¦ so more or less half a second per elite.
Thatās not enough to do (complete) normal activities on the next difficulty.
Maybe itās my skillā¦ knife dance I meanā¦ being a channeled skill it has a very specific and constant damage per secondā¦ itās not the same as more powerful and spaced out hits (And on top of that, itās a single target skill)
That could be affecting my perception.
I was thinking about this during my own progression.
I have to say I am inclined to agree with the OP at least to some extent - Masterworking or not the jumps from T2 to T3 and even more so T3 to T4 are pretty sudden, and completing the required Pit Tier does not at all mean you are ready to play there.
Which is fine once you know that, but thinking back to Capstone Dungeons and WTs, they werenāt like that. If you could complete Capstone 1 you were typically well prepared for WT3. Similarly for the 2nd one and WT4.
But completing the Pit in under 15 minutes doesnāt mean you are ready to be effective in the associated Torment. You could grind your way through dying 2-3 times due to sudden loss of armor and res and finish with a minute or two to spare. But then even the easiest T4 activities will be a hard and dangerous slog at that pace.*
I did wonder if they could add 1 more Torment level but keep T4 the same, to reduce the jump. But IDK if thatās the right move, there is something good about having an option to do something significantly harder and as that becomes less of a struggle you feel the progression.
I think there is a sort of dead zone where you are finding everything on a Torment very easy but the next one is still too difficult. So you have to blast easy stuff to make that jump. How long you should need to do that for is subjective and highly build dependent.
*EDIT - I think the right view is that you need to get comfortable on the Pit Tier that unlocks a Torment level, not just complete it. You donāt need to speed it but you shouldnāt be dying more than once and it shouldnāt take more than 8-10 minutes or so. If you donāt want to do easy content to get there you would be best doing lower tier Pit runs that are still engaging and ideally give Glyph upgrades. Hopefully the Dungeon Escalation gives some options here to smooth out difficulty alongside the Pit?
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Totally agree.
You end up a bit āforcedā to play on easy mode for a while.
And maybe thatās a better way to describe it.
Iām aiming for 5 levels above the pit that unlocksā¦ but yeah, itās kind of like being comfortable in the one that unlocks.
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I believe Dance of Knives Rogues fits in the same category as the Spirtiborn builds I tried. You can bring the build in T4 but Masterworking is probably required.
As said by others, the Pit is a good metric to know what the build can do. I cleared Pit 60 with my SB and that was enough for T4 open world and NMDs. I gave up in Pit 65. I was barely doing any damage to the end Boss. For super elites and Bosses in T4, you probably need to do at least Pit 70.
Oh yeah, maybe.
I mean, Iām just doing it for fun.
Eventually, Iām going to get stuck and use Masterworking.
The reason I think itās possible is because I know my build well and think I can double or triple my damage without resorting to Masterworking.
Clearly he can 
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Yes they were, unless you were pushing them late.
When you did a capstone and then went into the helltides there was a monster level and if it was above the level where you pushed by a lot, you would get wrecked out in the helltides until your level got close.
If ignoring something that is completely irrelevant is a bad thing, then I can say that it is very wrong that you are ignoring Donald Trump in this thread.
Hmmā¦ thatās not my recollection, but you could be right. I couldnāt say what season Iām thinking of. Completing the capstone was not timed IIRC, though you did take more damage the longer it took?
Also I wouldnāt include Helltides as baseline, those were significantly more dangerous. I am thinking more of doing whispers etc - enemies of your own level.
Maybe I was just overlevelled for many seasons but am recalling an earlier one where a friend and I struggled through it and then did Ok once we completed it.
Either way the point stands I think - completing the Tier to unlock a Torment does not mean you are ready to be productive in that Torment. I thought this was what we were accustomed to from Capstones, but maybe that was just the way I played it, probably over-preparing for them then crushing them.
If I remember the numbers correctly (and this is a stretch)
I believe the first capstone monsters were level 50 or 52
But once you were in the next tier it started at 54 so there was a gap in enemy level.
And I just used Helltides because that is normally where I would go. And the open world without helltides was pretty easy overall.
By the way, I tried Lord Zir in T3ā¦ 10 minutes in, and he killed me at 15% health (nothing bad about him killing meā¦ 10 minutes equals trouble). Probably a 12 minute battle if I complete it.
Lord Zir T2: 25 seconds.
At least 20 times slower
Thatās aā¦ big jump.
This is the problem of very large multiplicatives, when you reach a legendary node in the model that gives a multiplicative of 50% or you put an item with GA in attack speed. It is a very large power.
-The number jumps are very high in this game. We quickly destroy everything in each level. And the level above is always enemies with a lot of life.
Hmmā¦ I thought the normal open world started at the same level as the Capstone. Helltides 3 levels higher IIRC, plus all the hellfire crap to avoid which would kill you very fast as a newbie in that WT.
So, maybe itās a bit of both, me over levelling or gearing and us playing different content once there?
I think maybe I approached them differently to Pits - they felt like a big one-off thing you should prepare for. But going up 1 pit level seems like it should be doable, you already know you cleared the previous one with X time left, etc.
Right, but that doesnāt necessarily equate to needing 20x the damage. If you are having to do mechanics, avoid attacks etc, that wastes a lot of time when you could be DPSing. If it takes 25s you probably arenāt in any risk of dying.
Soā¦ donāt be too disheartened. A few good upgrades might make it a whole lot more manageable.
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Thatās where the real big jump is. You play in one Torment difficulty but have to go to the one below to do the bosses and get the Ancestral Uniques for a build to be functional.
So many complaining for not being able to one-shot anymore some of the Bosses, I bet they never experienced a 10 minutes fight for a kill.
It would be poor logic if i actualy had said that but i didnāt this is a topic about balancing in the game and so my remarks here are about that.
In regards to balancing this game is badly constructed, in entirety. This is my opinion obviosuly people can disagree if they want.
From all the ARPGs i have played so far D4 probably is the worsed in regards to balancing and coherent game mechanics.
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āOh yeah, maybe.
I mean, Iām just doing it for fun.ā
You literally agreed with Kubikluc that you probably need to masterwork for T4. So how is it irrelevant?
Itās hard jump, for sure, but is it ātoo hardā ? Thatās not so sure. Itās good to have some challenge, I think it makes the game a bit more fun. At least me I have more fun, it forces me to change some build and try new stuff.
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True, I even checked it right after writing the message.
I fought Zir T3 again, but this time I timed the first third of his health (which is very easy and quick).
The first third took 1 minute and 50 seconds.
Multiplying that by 3, itās 5 and a half minutes.
Thatās 330 seconds, versus 25 in T2.
So I think saying itās 13 times is pretty accurate.
Now, it took me 9 minutes and 24 seconds to kill him, and Zir is a boss that drops a lot of mobs at the end of the battle, so I can safely say that my build has a significant impact on my perception.
No, itās not about balance, not build balance at least.
At least, as the thread creator, I can say that itās not my intention to talk about builds.
The difference between one torment and another, for me, isnāt balance. Itās progression.
Difficulty curve I think itās called.
Itās definitely not difficultā¦ Iāve even done the jumps without masterworkingā¦ That was my original intention in mentioning masterworking.
The jump is simply disruptiveā¦ what Orion said a while ago is, I think, the best: it creates a dead zone.
It forced me to change for a different class to be able to do higher endgame content. The challenge was there from the start if you didnāt choose one of the meta builds of the season. I agree that someone playing every season the same build is clearly seeing a difference this time. Most, because most are doing meta, are not seeing any increase in difficulty. They are only slow down in their progression because of the reduced drop rates compared to previous seasons.
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