The reason that bricking is in place is because we’re not supposed to be decked out in full BiS within 2 weeks into the new season.
You’re supposed to keep grinding for that perfect item, and nothing stops the game from dropping ANOTHER copy of said perfect item later down the line.
Considering you can get +90% damage with a single click on a 2-hander, I’d say getting 5 more tries after the initial roll of the dice is pretty damn generous.
BUT what needs to change is the ridiculous returning theme of “prioritized attributes”. It sucked in D3 as soon as Miriam showed up, and it sucks even more in D4. Every affix should have an equal chance of being rolled.
No more 4+ rolls of the exact same attribute in a row. I MEAN it!
Now, should the originally rolled tempered attribute stay and could we reject the new rolled attribute? Thus turning Tempering into Enchanting 2.0? I’m on the fence.
(if that’s not already the case) an equal chance for every roll
no chance of getting the same roll type twice in a row
and :
eventually, maybe to calm down some people : a “keep the current tempering” button so that you decide whether you change to the new rolled one or keep the previous one.
I was gonna say that, BUT…what if you rolled a low damage modifier? And the next roll immediately after that is a higher damage?
It hasn’t happened to me yet lol, and I’ve rage-salvaged my fair share of perfect-looking weapons because they got bricked with the sheetiest of rolls. But it’s meant to keep us playing the game.
well, personally what i saw is that : when people say they “bricked” something it’s not due to a low roll , but due to not rolling what they wanted in the first place.
and it’s better to roll a lower roll than not rolling the wanted roll at all (which, could still happen of course)
it being a low or a high roll is still part of the game, and isn’t that much of a problem unless you min-max to get to pit 130+
and if you happen to get the wanted roll , albeit low one, you can still have a few shot at it nevertheless with the 3rd and 5th attempt for example if you rolled it in the first attempt if you wish to.
yet those 3rd and 5th attempt will be more likely to be the wanted roll anyway since they wouldn’t be possibly the same roll type multiple times in a row
eitherway , i think the system should keep being limited in the amount of attempt for sure
but the attempts should have equal chance.
It has been more than 2 weeks. Have you had 3GA with affixes for you build drop in every slot yet?
I haven’t even seen 3GA items for every slot much less that match my build.
The thought that you could find all the perfect items so quickly is laughable.
completely agreed. the system is fun. IF there are weighted affixes that should be handled for sure. (by now id also say that some affixes feel weighted, for sure it wouldnt hurt for the devs to have a look into that, cause i doubt that was the intention)
So the issue is about probability and people not understanding with a 20 to 33% chance it’s not uncommon to come up with the same result 5 times in a row. Now when you actually do get the affix you want, you obviously stop.
However as an experiment I would love people to take roughly 1000 items, go through all tempering attempts, and record the results. Don’t even worry about the affix you want, just keep going. I get the feeling people would find very interesting results.
Now I’m not advocating for or against changes for tempering. All I’m advocating for is how probabilities work. As it’s always been a case by case basis. It’s the same with people complaining they haven’t found an Uber unique in 500 runs, but their friends have found 12 in the same amount of time.
Well your ‘friend’ is the one time you got the affix you wanted and never cared to reroll it for obvious reasons. You could have easily rerolled it and gotten the same affix, but you’d never know because it’s not worth the risk.
im pretty sure it was purrsuasive who posted it - he rolled like 300ish items on the ptr and documented it. all affixes ended up rather equally (of course not perfectly equal)
of course thats ptr, so who knows if stuff has been tweaked for the live version.
if someone wants to organize a community sheet or stuff, i wouldnt mind helping on collecting data. could also be interesting for blizzard incase they dont track that themselves.
as i said, 3 weeks into the season, i do also “feel” like some affixes are weighted.
Didn’t know this, I have no doubt they never changed it though.
I agree it can ‘feel’ this way at times. Now enchanting I will say definitely feels this way. Tempering I’m not so convinced.
I only say this because how many times have you actually got the affix you wanted on the first try then never rerolled? I bet you don’t keep track, no one does, they consider themselves lucky and just move on.
However it definitely stands out when you don’t get the one affix you wanted 5 times in a row. Not to mention when it happens enough times to become frustrating.
Maybe when I’m done with all my seasonal journey stuff and have pushed as far as I want in the Pit I’ll start recording my findings. Just taking random items and tempering them until I’m all out of charges. Also recording how many times I get the same affix 5 times in a row.
I get the feeling the results will be as I expect though.
maybe we all should agree on an item and manual that works across all classes and just temper it. every now and then. if a few people do that we should get some solid results.
eventually just armors with the manual that gives +% armor dodge or max health?
and yea, totally agree with you, hence why i said it “feels” weighted. it might as well be perfectly balanced out ^^ - also agree that enchanting for sure feels weighted. there are certain enchants that are pretty much not even worth attempting to roll, as youll just go broke trying to get them.
main concern for me is just chances to roll different tempering for different classes are not the same. Sometimes it is 1/3(cuz you have 3 tempering) sometimes it 1/7(you have 7) and it should not work like this. Tbh i even see no point to buy some slots for 3-5b when one of the tempering have 1/7 chances. They should fix this for sure.
I would say pick 3 manuals, that can be used by all classes of course. Now I say 3 for the amount of affixes that can appear on a recipe. We need one with 3, 4, and 5 affixes. I’d have to look later. Busy this morning, but I’ll see if I can’t set something up.
It’s the class specific tempers that seem to have the most extra and/or undesirable affixes. Take Necro for instance where people are looking for decrepify size, but they also have iron maiden size, curse duration and a couple other options that can roll. (Can’t remember specifically off the top of my head, now on 3rd class about to start 4th.)
There is also the weapon for tornado Druid where you want chance to cast tornado twice, but you will often roll hurricane size and hurricane duration or lightning storm size and duration over and over. This is a really watered down affix pool. This temper is a particular pain point for me because I am playing with my 4th hurricane size 2H axe in a row without seeing chance to cast tornado 2x even one time. Lucky for me I am not a meta slave running all pets so hurricane is on the bar so I can get at least something out of that temper.
So found something interesting, in the little time I had to look this up. The Tempered Recipes everyone can use range from 3 to 6 affixes total. Three total recipes have 3 affixes, three recipes have 4 affixes, one recipe has 5, and one recipe has 6. I’ll have to go through the classes as well see what each one gets, just for fun mind you.
As Chef pointed out though it’s the class specific tempers more so then the others. However I will only be able to test Necro and Barb (wanted to try a thorns build) for the moment. I’ll try to make a prototype spreadsheet later. I’m not great with spreadsheets mind you, but I’ll see what I can come up with.
hmmm, if its the class specific ones its of course a little harder to get data throughout all classes. I can do necro and sorc. Maybe a seperate thread later will help to get some more people to join. if its just 2 people itll be quite a struggle to collect enough data for it to make sense.
so basically we pick one class specific for every class, and eventually 2 tempers for all classes with varying amounts of affixes?
also, maybe a CM will see it. just to make sure if its “allowed” to crowdsource data over the forums. Tho i doubt there will be any problems with that.
also, feel free to tell me if i can assist you in any way - im not really good with organizing things, but eventually i can help with a spreadsheet.
