With the tempering slot machine, the house always wins.
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I guess we will soon have more details on what is coming for Tempering next season. If the number of stats is reduced to 4 for all tempers, that will already make a sensible difference. Add another tempering try and there will be a lot less complains about bricking. It cannot be 100% success otherwise it is just select your affixes and the tempering system becomes useless. For the system to work as intended, there must be a non-negligible percentage of failures (not getting exactly want you want).
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This game doesnāt have true RNG. As evident from all the people requiring billions of gold to roll a +2 passive on their amulet.
Instead you get main stat, damage and life 95% of the time.
Itās why when tempering you get initial RNG to reroll current stat or pick new.
This game is weighted and fake as hell, like our managed democracy.
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Tempering and enchanting are different systems. Lets not forget rolling on an amulet has 30-40 outcomes which each time you enchant you have 3 of 30-40 on the return.
I should burn my 3B gold and all my S4 mats on enchanting and tempering cataloguing.
Record all my results on what rolls.
But new Poe league today.
I hear you. I genuinely do. Youāre not wrong. You can totally equip a 3/5 or 4/5 Item and get some serious use out of it. And Iād say thatās what everyone does as we level up. Once you hit endgame and youāre equipping 925 gear, it changes.
When you have a 0GA Item that is a 5/5 , the only upgrade to it is a >0GA Item that is 5/5 . Any Item that is 3/5 or 4/5 is not an upgrade. itās worthless. Itās a brick.
I donāt think anyone is complaining about sub-925 gear or 0GA gear bricking. (actually, it does kind of suck 
). But itās okay. Itās not a big deal.
The problem starts when there are so few upgrades available to you that it takes 10+ hours to find one and then ā¦ you Temper it to 4/5. Itās a binary: is it an upgrade or is it not? And itās not. So itās bricked. And thatās a shame. Itās absolutely not the feeling the development team would want us to have, Iām certain.
Also SubDriver smells like feet, has black teeth, and rocks Cheetos-dust fingers 24/7 .
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For the most part its knowing your limits. I mean rolled +FO on gloves cost me 170 m. I would have likely stopped at 200.
I hear you on this point. Upgrades come super fast in the begining but there is a point upgrades are much harder to obtain. This is somewhat normal tho.
Loot rains from the sky so aquiring the base 0ga items is effortless. Once you get into the 2ga+ it can be weeks to never within the season. My sorc didnt have any upgrades for the last 2.5 weeks of play but im pretty geared.
Given that it might be a while before any meaningful change comes to tempering, hereās hoping that the expansion adds a couple systems to give people other things to look forward to. 
I was gearing up my eternal character because I ran out of things to do in season 4.
4 weapons, didnāt get the single temper I want.
Yeahā¦ 100% agree.
And donāt be influenced by those who say itās actually good. Everyone knows it feels bad, but some just donāt care or like to suffer.
The fact that every week (and sometimes every day) a different thread appears saying the same thing shows that it is not good.
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Itās not that I donāt like it, I think it has promise. But it needs some refinement.
Sorry to burst any bubbles butā¦ Pathologicās data actually shows tempering is likely either weighted or broken.
Using Pathologicās results, both the G-test and chi square test of goodness of fit find the results are not consistent with expected results, meaning the distribution of tempering is likely NOT even. Sorry.
Caveat: itās been a more than a few years since I took Business Statistics in college so Iām happy to be corrected. I tried to read and confirm which test to use and actually used two different methods. The calculated probability that Pathologicās results [818, 738, 696, 748] are consistent with an even distribution [750, 750, 750, 750] is only .0172 (G-test) and .0165 (chi square). Anyone can use Excel to calculate the chi square using the chisq.test() function.
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Were these results posted on reddit? Someone posted a sample of like 100 tempering results showing that the stats were weighted. Then they came back a little while later with I believe around 600-700 results showing that it wasnāt weighted. Iām wondering if that is the same guy you are referring to
Sorry, should have linked so people could see the source: Tempering data: Extremely unlikely to be weighted
I went looking for it since both Pathologic and LazyLoaf were referring to it above.
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Thank you, I appreciate it
It is a computer-generated random process. It is pseudo RNG not true RNG. Maybe this is just the conclusion you are getting from your tests. It doesnāt mean there is any weighting involved. With weighting, there would have been more discrepancy between the results. Maybe more robust random functions could have been used in the code. Maybe it is fine as it is and the players just have to live with it.
No. It has a .017 probability of being an even distribution, which means it is more likely than not to be weighted or broken. This is straight forward statistical analysis and your distinction about the type of RNG is irrelevant given the sample size of 3000.
I agree that a sample size of 3000 is quite large when you only have 4 options to choose from. I am not doubting your results. Pathologicās results seemed close enough to me to exclude any weighting. There is weighting in the game and when there, it is quite obvious. I was more puzzled by the fact that many complained about getting several times the exact same roll which I personally also experienced. As I wrote earlier in this thread, there could be some issues with the way RNG is coded but I donāt believe there is any intentional weighting when it comes to tempering of masterworking.
Itās a feature,
the randomness of bricking a item makes the grind a forever one(not counting trading as I am playing on handheld and finds it hilariously difficult to type or even see a linked item.)
Good or bad feature is subjective I guess but I do enjoy the game as a whole
Try getting burner items until its fixed. Give your item a temper, and if you get a crappy one, do 4-5 tempers on a burner item to hopefully get rid of the crap rolls. Practically, it doesnt help, but maybe it feels like it, which is nice.