Temper Frustration

PC General Discussion
1

The optimal gear we’re looking for is extraordinarily hard to find because of the new system in place causing Ancestrals to rarely drop, and when they do its only a couple. Since we will spend 20 minutes in Infernal Hordes, possibly the best place to consistently farm gear, we get maybe 2 pieces of ancestral gear per run. One of them MIGHT be the type of gear we need, and it MIGHT have 2 of the 3 stats we require. Now we have to pray to god that we get our tempers within 12 rolls MAX (more if its GA) or we lose the gear permanently (Check Wudi’s video in this link to see why this is ridiculously hard to do, and some reasons why i cant use more accurate #'s in my math: https://youtu.be/alPdqA0I0wA?si=g43WZZ1rrjhqStpR).

Lets do some crude math with we know, we’ll compare apples to apples here, which ironically isnt the best comparison, but we’ll look at Infernal Hordes last season vs this season as our baseline… In 1 hour, we complete 3 runs (60 minutes an hour divided by 20 minutes = 3 runs).

Last season, 1 hour of horde runs: 3 runs with last seasons mechanics would easily net us 1 full inventory of ancestral gear per run. We can easily fill up with even more in Season 5 because we can repeatedly open the loot chest, so we can count all 33 slots as Ancestrals due to last seasons mechanics. 33 ancestrals times 3 runs = 99 ancestrals per hour. Then we get 5 chances to temper for a total of 495 chances to get the tempers we want. I think that creates some ok odds, but based on all other factors its just still not enough and is why people complained so much.

Now with season 6: 1 hour of Infernal Hordes is 3 runs, each run netting roughly 2 pieces of Ancestral gear (for me at least) for 6 total pieces an hour. Multiply this by 12 possible tempers since we can retemper and we now have 72 chances to get the tempers we want on the gear.

Lets compare!
495 chances last season vs 72 chances this season. Thats an 85.5% reduced chance of getting our tempers… I could see this being a thing in Eternal since progress doesnt really end after a short period of time, but in a time limited season, this is easily going to prevent most players from getting anywhere near the end, like… maybe not even surpass 50% progress towrards completing a build.

Likely the chances are actually worse than that due to the following factors:

  • Less loot = less chances to get the piece we need (chest, legs, etc…)
  • Less loot = less chances to get the stat combo’s we need
  • Reduced chances for the good tempers = more failed tempers
  • Reduced chances for the good stats on gear = less usable loot
  • and probably more…

Please correct me if im wrong! Im not the best at math and i really hope im extremely far off! But also keep in mind, with Hordes in Season 6, its the best and most consistent way of getting Ancestral’s, with the highest count of ancestrals per hour (that i’ve found). In season 5, its NOT the best. You can get 99 in an hour in hordes season 5, but if you did Helltides or NMD’s, you could get SIGNIFICNATLY more, several inventorys full! So this 85.5% reduced chance of getting what we want vs last season is our best case scenario…

If somebody averages 3 pieces per run in season 6, then its a 78.2% decrease
4 per run is a 70.9% decrease
5 per run is a 63.6% decrease

In any situation, the decrease is DRAMATICALLY high when in reality we really should have more of an increase, or different mechanics. Current mechanics make you feel defeated when you spent 6 days trying to get that 1 ring just to brick it. Season 5 and before you might get a few a day.

If the game could be coded to hold true to roll percentages, meaning if we are tempering Movement Speed and there’s 4 different tempers we could roll, guaranteeing 25% chance would make significantly more sense to me, you would roll it within 4 rolls every time. You’d still brick items, but it would happen less. There’s many options, this was just an example.

I’m super frustrated that our retemper scrolls can only be used once. I understand giving items an end… but… why like this? How does it make sense? Why cant it live in my inventory for as long as it takes to roll what i need and wear it, or find something better and salvage it? There’s still an end… This is a season, i think some mechanics like this should be modified strictly for season’s. This is all just my opinion, some will agree, some will disagree, some will both agree and disagree. I just want Blizzard to see this as feedback and consider it with future changes.

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Tldr. Arpgs have rng and it seems to defeat alot of ppl on the fourms.

If you dont enjoy arpgs why play them. Tempering isnt perfect but ita a lot better then what we had before.

They just made it easier getting a 5/5 and gave more control on rng woth 2 of 5 affixes

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you didnt get 33 ga items in 1 run. regular ancestrals were what 750 gear is now. you can only compare ga gear in s5 to ancestrals now

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@Lazyloaf
I never said rng is bad, i never said we need to do away with rng. If you think thats what i meant, you should reread it.

When i mentioned the solution i came up with, that was still not getting rid of RNG, it was actually creating MORE rng since Blizzard removes that by ensuring that some stats roll less often while others are more frequent.

@LavaWisp
I dont recall ever mentioning that they were GA’s, in every situation i meant Ancestral gear, item level 750. I’ll re-read and see if i said GA, if i did that wasnt what i meant.

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But the RNG shouldn’t be at the Blacksmith, it should be from drops. It’s a terrible end game system. Masterworking is equally as frustrating. There are many solutions to fix this problem.

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But items no longer drop with 5 affixes.

They just made it easier to get a 5/5. Items are incomplete on drop. They didnt want a loot filter and we dont need one because of tempering and GA.

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You’re right, they made it easier… If it takes 500 drops to get your one specific item, then on the previous season you’d get that 1 to 3 times a day… But they didnt really make these items any easier to get, instead, they made significantly fewer drop so its significantly harder to get that drop, but then… because they make certain affixes roll with a temper more often and others (the ones we want) less often, we still have a high risk of going through all 6 of our tempers chances and not getting what we want. I do also believe that they made it more rare to roll high on those stats too, so you will mostly get lower rolls when those stats show up. This was also done with aspects on gear!

They made everything much harder, but sold us on it being better and easier…

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Now please dont confuse drop rate to the tempering mechanic. Drop rates still only net you a 3/5 if you getcwhat your looking for.

They did reduce the drop rates of ga for sure, however imo its a nice change from S4-S5 where you were done gearing in a day or two.

I switched my build today which required new gear and got what I needed within a few hours. Thats not to say I dont have room for upgrades. Tempering itself just takes an incomplete item and completes it with more control from the player but sure you dont always get what you want.

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You have to be smart enough to understand there exists a colossal psychological difference between “I didn’t get an item to drop with perfect roles” and “I got an item to drop with perfect roles but then it got ruined,” right? I mean, it’s one thing to be lazy, but to put no thought whatsoever into the issue is beyond indolent.

If you don’t actually play other ARPGs, why talk? Path of Exile has methods to craft affixes onto gear with open affix slots. Guess what? You get to pick the exact affix you want at the crafting bench. If you’re crafting an item from just the base, there are methods to block undesirable mods from rolling on that item. You just have to have the materials to do it. If you are in a situation in which you get undesirable mods, you can scrub the item and start again.

PoE is even more of a grind than this game is; it’s not as if these deterministic affix systems allow people to bypass the item grind.

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They gave these casuals who struggles to get gear a safety net. At this point it if a reset can’t get you the temper you want then you’re a lost cause. This game has never been so easy to get geared yets it’s even more whining from the same morons. Just give up, it’s over

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I’m simply talking about gear that has 2 of the 3 affixes, not GA, not perfect rolls, just getting at least 2 of the 3 affixes you need on an ancestral, period… even if they are minimum rolls, i just need 3 stats like Dex, Max Life, and Armor for boots for example, so i need at least 2 of those, then i can use the occultist to work on getting that 3rd.

The FIRST struggle is getting the item. With how many fewer pieces of gear we get, and how many fewer are ancestral, the pieces we need with 2/3 affixes are extremely rare! Even the regular legendaries are quite rare! I’ve been playing for far too many hours since season 6 day 1 and i still have pieces that are legendary and not ancestral that have trash stats because i cant even get 2 of my needed affixes on 3 pieces of gear.

The second struggle is when you FINALLY get that piece of gear, and you’re looking to add something like Total Armor to your gear, with only 3 temper options available, i get these tempers: Maximum Life > Maximum Life > Dodge Chance > Maximum Life > Maximum Life, then i use my scroll of restoration and i get Maximum Life > Dodge Chance > Dodge Chance > Dodge Chance > Dodge Chance… If we got lots of ancestrals like previous seasons, then these scrolls would be an amazing update! But its just far too little because the RNG is not really RNG when its programmed to pick the crap stats 98% of the time.

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It’s either I’m lucky every season or people are not farming the right area but I have never struggle getting gear if anything it gets easier with each season. If anything once I get myself online with torment farming I try to help anyone I party with.

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I’m not defending the design, but the way it has been explained to me is that completing the Campaign and hitting 60 and getting to around 16 in the Codex means you have “beaten” the game and the Paragon levels, ancestrals, and maxxing out the Codex are considered “bonus”. I think it’s a dumb design because you will never realistically complete everything even if you play for thousands of hours now. But some people say they like it for some reason.

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Yes i understand it roughly the same, the main game is the campaign and one of the issues they have with seasons is player retention. A lot of the top players would get in, max out a character in a week or two, and then the player base would start falling off until the next season.

I definitely understand doing things to make it take longer to get everything done, but… i dont think what’s been done is the right way to go, makes it impossible for the vast majority of players to ever max out a character.

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Well we will agree to disagree. You cant ruine something that was never finished on the first place. Tempering just finishes an item.

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Your whole analysis is wrong. You’re comparing apples to oranges. The definition of what an ancestral item is has completely changed.

Other than that, I like the new lower drop rates and I like the tempering system. The anticipation at the blacksmith is actually fun for me.

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They can keep Tempering & Masterworking, they just need to remove the RNG from it, again, many solutions to improve both systems and keep them in the game. It’s already a layer of RNG when the item drops if you’re going to get what you want, and to layer on even more RNG to improve it is a horrible end game design, even if they don’t bottleneck it behind materials and gold.

I’m glad they didn’t add a loot filter. Better to fix the root problem and they did in Torment. We only see Legendaries aside from cache drops. Ancestral’s have an icon, when you salvage or sell the game tells you what you don’t have for transmog and what’s an upgrade in the codex and now a lot of activities are timed so the mobs don’t drop loot and the reward comes at the end.

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The Spirit Boi’s Rawhide Odyssey

In the realm of Sanctuary, where darkness and light eternally clash, a peculiar hero emerged - Spirit Boi. His fists, imbued with ethereal power, could punch through even the toughest demons. Yet, his quest for ultimate strength led him on an unexpected path.
Spirit Boi found himself crawling across the scorched earth, searching for a most peculiar treasure: rawhide. It seemed Blizzard had a secret stash, hoarding these seemingly insignificant strips of leather. Why? The answer remained shrouded in mystery, fueling Spirit Boi’s determination.
As he gathered his rawhide hoard, a peculiar sight caught his eye. A blacksmith, his face contorted in amusement, watched Spirit Boi’s efforts with glee. This was no ordinary blacksmith; he was the guardian of the endgame’s true challenge: crafting.
Spirit Boi approached the blacksmith, eager to forge his newfound power into legendary weapons. But the blacksmith had other plans. He presented Spirit Boi with a peculiar contraption: a shiny crafting lever. With a mischievous grin, he invited Spirit Boi to pull the lever and witness the magic unfold.
With each pull, the lever would spin, and a random outcome would appear. Sometimes, it was a glorious upgrade. Other times, it was a downgrade so disastrous that Spirit Boi would groan in frustration. The blacksmith’s laughter echoed through the chamber, growing louder with each failed attempt.
As Spirit Boi’s patience waned, the blacksmith’s amusement reached a crescendo. He rolled on the ground, clutching his sides, his laughter so uncontrollable that it seemed he might need a divine intervention. Spirit Boi, initially annoyed, couldn’t help but crack a smile at the blacksmith’s antics.
And so, the endgame of Diablo 4 Season 6 unfolded: a hilarious dance between a determined hero, a mischievous blacksmith, and a shiny crafting lever that held the fate of legendary gear. It was a tale of perseverance, frustration, and ultimately, the sheer absurdity of the quest for power in Sanctuary.

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Casted Hydras have 2 additional heads

reroll

Casted Hydras have 1 additional heads

reroll

Casted Hydras have 2 additional heads

reroll

Casted Hydras have 2 additional heads

There oughta be a rule that if you hit the same affix twice in a row, it can’t roll a third time. Or maybe there can be an additional crafting mat where, if you roll a temper, you can use the crafting mat to exclude that temper from future rerolls.

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On top of that enchanting the right third affix also costs hide/iron which is extremely scarce as well making min/maxing near impossible.

1 Like