Temper and Affix Roll limitations

PC General Discussion
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I wanted to take some time to express my frustration with the current reroll systems. I have noticed this from back in beta and I am still blown away that it is still in the game.

First, I want to mention my frustration with the large majority of the the 20+ year gaming friends and family gaming buddies that have outright left the game due to the feeling of being a chore and coming up with bad rolls.

– Affix Rerolls –

You often reroll the same stat that you have already chosen. The large majority of the time, you feel as if I am rerolling and only seeing one stat each attempt. However, this is so common that you can quickly get up to 5 mil a roll if you aren’t paying attention. This, is in fact, how I have lost many people that I play with in the game due to a gold ceiling and this season in particular is much harder to get gold. I ask friends on discord if they wanted to play some D4 and when probed as to why they weren’t interested, one very common response was that they spent days farming 30 million gold and blew it on an item and didn’t end up with anything close to what they wanted and are broke. This, effectively feels like the current Tempering roll process. 5 Rolls, and all of them are the same.

The cost ramps up too quickly and the available pool should be increased by another 2 options at least. The pool of possible options can be so large, and some of which naturally being a lower chance of showing up at all that I can imagine someone throwing 200 mil at an item. If I have friends opting out of the season due to 30 mil, and I can not imagine farming up even 100 mil for one affix on an item, I can see how painful the experience may seem. In the games current state, the gold grind is very real and I have tried many types of routes and all of which are painful. Please lower the costs and offer more affix options per roll. There is clearly more room in the UI window. It is looking awfully barren.

– Tempering Rolls –

The amount of options for this should honestly be increased to 2 if there are no plans on adding a way to reset, or increase its cost per roll. I cant stress how terrible I felt finding an actual 2 greater affix item that I could use as 99% of them over the last week were trash, and I bricked it with 5 rolls. I could only imagine how someone would feel with a remarkable 3 GA item. That feeling of hitting the lottery should stick with you the entire season, not be dashed once you spend 1 min rolling it to death. Personally, after spending 53 mil on getting the most terrible + Core skill roll on some gloves, then having this happen, I logged off for 2 days and really considered not getting on until next season.

I have watched videos on people who play the game hardcore suggesting the rerolls be reset by the use of a Resplendent Spark. If this were the case, I would likely not play. I also seen suggestions of perhaps 50 scattered prisms and this is also absurd. I have roughly 25 of them and that is since the start of the season. I can not catch the world boss but once every couple of days and I certainly don’t want to goblin hunt or hope for one from The Butcher doing Nightmare dungeons that I hate doing. If it was the case, I think 1 for another 5 rolls would be a better option. My suggestion is to increase the optional Tempers by one and let people reroll it to their hearts content. Ill still be on the hunt for an amazing Greater Affix item in the meantime. Hell, if we had an armory, I would spend the time hunting for items for other builds. Considering how much of a pain it is to try a new build, I have never wanted to go down that road since I tried to do it Season 1 on my druid.

I feel these temptations shouldn’t exist. I think several of the limitations in the game are arbitrary and really stop the momentum of enjoying the game in the long run. I often want to express my opinions on how to improve the game, but assume I would be vilified or people will defend the systems only to have it be removed within a year. Making it obvious that this was never truly good for the gameplay loop. Why not identify and change it sooner?

I have friends that came back to D4 simply because of the horse changes, or being able to sprint in town. Hell, the constant dismounting while running to open a chest before the helltide closes has made me also not want to run them any longer. Simple issues, major impacts. I only want to see the game become even more amazing and I feel like being regularly punished or interrupting the gameplay loop does not help.

Thanks for the time!

6 Likes
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Excellent post with many useful suggestions

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Adding an easy way (gold/veiled crystal) to reset temper rerolls is the least they can do. Whoever suggested resplendent sparks for it is mental.

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I think there could be some depth added to it.

No GA item - leave it as it is
1GA item - 2 rerolls more - reset for couple scattered prism or other material
2GA item - 4 rerolls more - reset for even more material
3GA item - 6 reroll more - reset for resplendent spark or even more scattered prism or anything other hard but possible to obtain material (dropped from high pits?)

PS. Just an idea, point of entry in disccussion, doesn’t need to be 50 prisms, could be something else.
PS2. On top of that we can have elixir or other consumable with a 25% chance to not consume the temper roll.

Thing is that the 3GA items with 3 desired affixes are more rare than Ubers that you can craft now.

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It’s easier than ever to get the stats you want on gear and yet still people want it to be even easier? Removing the tempering limit or making it a trivial cost, like some gold and veiled crystals, or 1 scattered prism, just guarantees you will get the stats you want with ease. There has to be some amount of RNG to create a sense of progression with the item hunt.

I have 717 scattered prisms, and had around 80 before they even buffed the droprates. Then I acquired probably ~400 from goblins over the last week for the event. What most of you propose with easy temper limits (or removed entirely), just guarantees people will be decked out in greater affix gear within a week, with extremely short progression to BIS gear and near 100% power. That sounds dull and boring to me.

Tempering needs changes, don’t get me wrong, but removing tempering limits just streamlines it way too much. That being said, D4 is aimed at a more casual audience, regardless of Rod Ferguson claiming it’s “easy to access, difficult to master,” so chances are Blizzard will streamline the system, like they’ve done to pretty much every other area of the game.

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Very well written post, OP.
I am very much supportive your thoughts and ideas. I shared the same frustration when some very good items with 2 or 3 GAs, which took weeks to find, turned to brick just after under 2 minutes.
Tempering needs to fix.

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You have given yourself away with that statement, because after 20 years you are still here, so your frustration level can’t be that bad. Enough of us are still here so obviously we are not that frustrated.

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If you’re thinking about adding all this complexity … just don’t. At this point it’s obvious that the system isn’t working and people are tossing out wild ideas to circumvent the system. Just fix the system instead.

There’s a hole in the wall and we’re talking about whether to use a canvas print or a Monet to cover it. JUST PATCH THE HOLE

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This is just so wrong. 99% of the playerbase would not have full 2GA or 3GA if there were unlimited temper resets or non bricking.

I played heavily for 3 weeks straight and never had an ideal 3GA drop and maybe 4-6 ideal 2GA items. All but one was bricked.

You people saying “you will be maxed out quickly and quit” are just wrong. Getting the base GA item is the hunt and the long part.

But further, why do you care if someone maxes out and quit after a month into the 3 month season?

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I don’t care at all how other people play. I care about my own experience when playing the game. And for me, being able to unlimited temper means I will have gear with 95% of my build’s power within a week with nothing left to do. I just mention the playerbase as a whole, as no temper limits undeniably will shorten the season for many players.

You can’t make the game solely for the casuals who play 2 hours a week, regardless whether they make up the majority of the playerbase. A better middleground to appease casuals and dedicated players can be found.

And I never said the playerbase would have triple-GA gear within a week. What I did try to explain was that people would very quickly get to 95% of their builds power, reaching that sense of the build and gear being finished with very little room to improve. Right now, I personally feel there’s a great sense of progression where you can slowly build your power. That will be completely eliminated if the tempering limit gets removed.

Like I said though, I know I’m in the minority, I know D4 is a more casual game. I wouldn’t be surprised if they trivialize the crap out of tempering.

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The amount of outrage that would spark if tempering gets nerfed.

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I meant nerfed in terms of it’s “difficulty” or RNG not nerfed in the sense it’s harder to engage with. I edited my post to be more clear.

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No need for context, I understood it. I took another approach because that would be very goofy for blizzard to actually nerf the system as a whole (I mean make it less powerful)

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Which hole? lack of temper reset? It’s just an idea, but i don’t see anything complex in what i suggested. More GA → more rolls. More GA → reset more expensive. Is it really hard?

Unless… You want just straight up free reset? I certainly don’t. I think reset should be expensive. This way you’d think twice if this item is really that good.

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False. Prove it. Show us your 3GA gear that is bricked. You know you wouldn’t have full gear of 2 or 3GA will ideal rolls in a week. You’re disingenuous.

True. Though the amount shortened is likely small and certainly subjective. Also you forget the people that quit early because of bricking. Obviously no bricking would extend the game for those that quit.

Yes you can…. The game is a middle ground right now. Getting rid of bricking (for casuals) doesn’t just grant you all well rolled 3GA gear (for dedicated players). Dedication is required to get the base gear, and no one is asking for that to change.

lol what? You’re claiming that not having items bricked would eliminate the slow build of power? Simply wrong. Note that people are getting to level 100 in a day and have full builds done in less than a week even with bricking. The pursuit of perfection of getting the drops and master working is the true end game grind. Tempering shouldn’t be deleting gear.

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Bricked 3 GA gear hurts my soul, please don’t.

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Resplendent sparks are a point of serious contention. The majority of players are not able to obtain them at all presently. Running Pits over tier 30 you will see player count drop off heavily and the Nightmare Bosses are not viable to most players without a carry they do not want to pay for. Maybe an option to use one spark/prism or a boatload of standard mats?

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The only way is to combat that is to add more ways of earning those sparks. The current way of earning them is not really great at the moment. Rare mats are fine, but it should have many ways to get them.

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This ties in to something else I want to see change in the game.
Dungeons… I would love to see rooms with purpose in some or all of them:

  • Library: Chance to have Glyphs or podium with a small amount of Points to spend upgrading a Glyph.
  • Armory: High chance of 1* - 3* gear drop(s)
  • Smithy: Some Gear with a chance at a unique and a chance to have a Blacksmith Mini-boss who when beaten (not killed) runs back to the anvil and offers you additional attempts to Temper and/or a reduced cost Masterwork.
  • Treasury: Lots of chests and/or treasure goblins. Great for gold gain and a chance at some drops.
  • Larder: We all know who lives here…

All of these rooms could have variations and be randomly placed in most dungeons. Would give more reason to actually explore a dungeon and more reason to keep running them.

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You’re missing my point entirely. Or we’re just not on the same page here. No one would be be full 2/3-GA gear in a week. I have never said that. What I’m trying to say is the way it is now you have a smooth, consistent, power progression from leveling 1-100, getting some of your gear together with the rolls you want but no GAs, then upgrading some of them by getting items with 1 GA, then 2 GAs, where you’re then at the point, along with all other forms of power, such as glyphs and aspects, where you’re pretty much 95% of the way to “max” power. To me, that’s a satisfying progression, with a satisfying pace to it.

With no tempering limit, you condense all of that progression and you will reach that 95% point of power significantly faster. It’s analogous to the leveling changes this season. It’s so fast now you really don’t get much of a sense of progression. You’re just flying through levels, especially 1-50, never really getting much time to actually feel out the character power in stages.

I dunno, I don’t think I’m explaining myself well enough. But basically I’m saying with no temper limit and easy rerolls, you will reach the upper limit of power way too fast, with then very little incentive to keep playing. As no one really wants to spend hours farming for that last 1% of min/maxing.

Also, I don’t actually have any 3-GA items that are bricked. The 2x 3-GA items I have both have favourable rolls.

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