So, what IS the ideal endgame?

PC General Discussion
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I see a lot of complaints about the endgame and the slog it is. While I can see where this is all coming from, I want to take a different approach.
I have learned that it’s better to think in solutions, than to dwell in the problem.
While it probably won’t be feasible to just change everything in the game, maybe we can convey some idea’s towards the dev team, that can be used to better the game

So for all those who feel like the endgame is not what it should be … Please state what the ideal endgame would look like in your opinion. If it were up to you … how would you like to spend your time playing after the campaign ?

7 Likes
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There is no end game. The game released unfinished as intended.

Maybe in 2 or 3 years or more

“In D4 when you log on theres always something new todo”
“Play the way you want!”
“150+ dungeons and endless customization”
All lies lol

6 Likes
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Either commit to the MMO thing and make the endgame about raid gameplay or just give us back greater rifts and leaderboards already.

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This is a thing.

You can also do this, results may vary.

2 Likes
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Itemization needs a fix so that we have something to hunt for. As it is now you are pretty much done as soon as you hit wt4 and get a decent set of ancestrals. Beyond that there will only be very minor upgrades if you wanna max rolls on your items. In other arpgs there are hordes of uniques that actually are good, there are crafting and polishing options that you can alter and build on your items, runewords whatnot. Also we need boss instances and some kinda more or less endless progression system. Not saying endless paragon like d3, but maybe something minor like +2 all stats per level after 100 or whatever.

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True variety in activities that give you loot & XP on the way to max’ing your toon. Activities that don’t all feel the same.

Immortal got it right, there’s tons to do in it. Unfortunately you’re gimped by the P2W nature of it.

1 Like
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My favorite endgames are like:
Roguelite (not hardcore) feature dungeons/activities and gamemodes with your fav character

Would be cool in diablo to have a roguelite dungeon with your character that as you advance it gets harder (not nightmare sigils) and has difference interesting mechanics and affixes
Similar to The Summit in division 2/Descent

But Diablo’d
And the further you go the better the rewards
End boss echos with new abilities or their own random abilities to throw you off

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  • Keep what’s already here but change: 1) the MMO activities on timers should be 24/7 uptime, 2) ability to teleport into dungeons and/or other activities
  • Add: Target farming unique loot from various Act bosses.
  • Add: Rifts/GRs → mass slaughter, time-limited accessible in all major towns → this can be a primary source of gold and lower XP
  • Add: Endless dungeon that gets progressively harder, with the option to exit every few stages → this can be a source for Obols and certain unique items that can drop at various stages
2 Likes
9

What is the ideal endgame? How about ANYTHING for starters. By the time I hit 70 on my sorc I was already almost fully 800+ with nothing to do but grind dungeons until my eyes bleed to level glyphs.

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Too many options to add…and if they were lazy they could just do it like Greatwr Rifts…but they decided "lets put none and make people wait for season "…

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The most critical part of an end game to me is feeling like you are making progress. No one really “likes” doing the same thing over and over just purely to watch the xp bar slide.
So then how do you make it so that you always feel like you are progressing, without taking the d3 route of infinite paragon? Probably through itemization. The trouble with the current end game is that you don’t really feel like you are getting stronger because you rarely ever upgrade gear.
I would propose that items can be forcibly made more powerful - you can just increase the rolls on an item, enchant more than one affix, etc. In order to use this system, it would require a special crafting material that drops only from endgame content such as higher level nightmare dungeons.
The system would ideally be designed such that the time it takes to play through the end game will reward you with enough of this material to fully deck out 1-2 sets worth of gear.

1 Like
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I hate being annoying to bring up other games

But an amazing thing about Division 2 is that you can select a singular target brand or loot type for your activity to have the drops be of that “type” or “brand”

I know that if they implemented a loot and optimization system like Div2 has would basically destroy their “keep the addicts playing and item chasing” scumscam

But that games loot and opti system is so so so good and enjoyable

I still constantly play the game and have fun.

I know it’s not an ARPG game style
But the loot systems are very similar and I strongly believe that the devs could learn from it

BUT THEY WONT BECAUSE HOW ELSE THEY GONNA MILK THEIR PLAYER BASE FOR SCUMCASH

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That is a great way to think. Personally my end game is simple:

Cap the level requirement on ancestral gear to 60. Ancestral gear should never require level 100. Cap sacred gear to level requirement 40.

Allow a max level character to turn off targeted item drops.

Perfect! All set! I can now use my very strong character that a lot of work and gold went into creating to farm items to trade and fund Alts.

Endgame problem solved. That easy. There’s a reason why people play Diablo 2 despite there being no endgame. You can farm items on your level 99 character. Can’t really do that on a level 100 character on Diablo 4, unless it’s an absolutely GG item like 2 devouring blaze 2 defensive skills CDR amulet. Other than that, people see it’s level 100, and they’re not interested.

Alternatively, if they aren’t interested in you trading, be honest about it instead of making it garbage, disable trading and put in a new WT with stronger items from 80-100. Ensure that only scared drop in WT3, only ancestral drops in WT4, and only the new item drops in WT5. No normal, sacred or ancestral items that I Insta delete in WT5.

2 Likes
14

End game stuff:

Economy
Needs a form of auction house.

PVE
Raids for 4/8/12/24 players with exciting bosses and mechanics like Lost Ark.
Group Finder for all the different activities.
Challenges such as beat fifty waves of mobs / bosses without die.
Weekly/Dailies
Replay of campaign bosses and more challenging bosses like Uber Lilith.

PVP
Arenas 1vs1, 4vs4, teams, etc.
Clan Wars
Objetive based PVP (Deathmatch, Cap the flag, etc.)

Fluffy Stuff
More cosmetics/collectables.
Personal stronghold, trophy decorations.
Clan halls.

Yeah, I get it, too much group content, game should be played solo. Blizzard already has an answer for that, it’s online and shared world. Might as well implement it correctly. Go full MMORPG.

I have players in the world that lag me by their mere approach but no group finder to make it easier to do dungeons. I’m forced to be online to play the game and have the servers working but if HC character die Blizzard doesn’t care. I must deal with other players in the game but that is not always helpful and I can’t play offline solo. Game is schizophrenic. Go FULL ONLINE FEATURES or go home.

4 Likes
15

Rift > Greater Rift Loop, loved it in D3 and would like it in D4 aswell, perfect loop. :beers:

4 Likes
16

Right now, endgame consists of the following:

  • Nightmare Dungeons
  • Tree of Whispers (Bounties)
  • Helltides
  • World Bosses

I’d like to see them utilize the open world more. I don’t have an “ideal” endgame, but I would like to see the following changes made to the overall state of the game:

  • XP gain increased from 100% to 250% for World Tier 3
  • XP gain increased from 200% to 500% for World Tier 4.
  • Increased mob density in the Overworld
  • Roaming Boss-type mobs in the Overworld
  • Mobs continue to scale with the player, but without scaling damage reduction.
  • Uniques drop between Levels 60 and 100, how frequently they drop will be determined by RNG. Super Uniques are included under this umbrella.
  • Affix rerolling cost starts at 25,000 and increases by 25,000 for each reroll.
  • All herbs within Helltide zones are converted to Fiend Rose.
  • World Boss events occur every 3 hours and can overlap with Helltides
  • World Tier 3 eliminates all White and Blue loot, reducing the drop pool to Rare, Legendary, Uniques, and Sacreds (If Ancestral can drop on WT3, that will also be included)
  • World Tier 4 takes it a step further and eliminates standard Rares and Legendaries (Standard as in non-Sacred/Ancestral)
  • Minimum item level for WT3 changed to 50
  • Minimum item level for WT4 changed to 70

I think that about covers everything.

3 Likes
17

for me a simple solution were to somehow

i know somehow is a good explanation right?

so, somehow make it viable to farm stuff for lower leveled characters with my high levled farmer.

what i mean by this
i got a level 76 druid, which had no luck getting a tempest roar. to the point i was 2nd guessing IF i even wanted to play on like that.

  • transition to D2/PoE/Last Epoch
    use my high leveled char and farm gear for a new char

Even if trading remains disabled for uniques(which i despise) then i could just gather gear for a 2nd char.
so i wouldnt start at 0 with no gear but i would be able to blast through the lower levels due to “nice” gear.

this way i could justify playing other classes. in the end i would also like to find uniques for other classes because having barb weapons drop as druid was as first a bummer but then. i was seing it as the positive things it has always been.
i could start a barb and have some kind of nice weapon for starters.

but then it hit me, the weapon was lvl 74required.
so that lost me all motivation to play on.

can’t trade for gear (ok i understand)
can’t find gear myself for sidechars (why?)
even if you say, yeah you can find gear. then why is it lvlrestricted to my current level.

if we take this to the extreme, once im 100 everything is levelreq 100. and im not gonna grind perfect gear for a sorc only to find out at lvl 100 i dont like sorc.

i wanna go in t1 and slay lvl 10 enemies for a good rare weapon and then lvl 20 and lvl 30 and so on and so forth.
why shouldn’t i be able to do that?

people defend this like mad saying looting gear yourself is THE game and my argument of looting gear for lower level characters is invalidated by that how?

i dont know.

endgame for me is starting a new character and finding items for this character thus starting the cycle anew. getting a rare(not yellow rare but an unusual item like a unique, like rare. maybe shaco or so) item and then building a character arround this rare item

3 Likes
18

I love diablo.
I have what I think are some great ideas to build the Ip.
But I don’t work for free.

Give me a call Blizzard, ill set you up for years.

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Endgame is endgame. If you’ve played D2/D2R you know this means we’ll suffer through anything. It matters not how dull or mindless it is. It’s just what we do. Why is this so difficult to understand??

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  • PvP arena with modes for up to 4v4 tvt and then 1v1 etc. A monthly leaderboard with wins/losses +/-5 levels to player
  • A leaderboard for fastest time on every dungeon normal mode
  • A leaderboard for fastest time on every NM dungeon lvl 100
  • A constant eye from Devs side to keep trade viable, like now where its part of the game but not mandatory for ssf people

Overall spreading out the world making it interesting with different things being sought in different areas, not like D3 where you are forced to farm keys and whatever, or helltides in d4. More like D2 where gold is good in trav, xp is best in baal but good in other places, mf for every item is a5 only, mf droprate better for shako etc in meph, cows for white items and ofc a combo-route for a few different stops before doing “new game”.

What follows from that is build diversity. So more concrete:

  • more mobs in open world and more gold drop or mat drop. Just something that is higher there
  • more ancestral rares in normal dungeons than elsewhere
  • Massively higher droprate for shako etc in NM 80+ BUT they can only drop there
  • More Unique drops in NM dungeons, but lower ancestral rares meaning you can get the GG Uniques but you will get less nice rares

Basically everything drop (except gg uniques) everywhere but there are better places for each individually which also means there can be different builds for each thing, like a leapbarb doing open world content, a barb that would be garbage if he tried anything above nm40.

As I wrote before, helltides being the only place for one specific item is not the same thing, that is a forced gameplay.

Overall for a aarpg ONLINE only multiplayer game I would like to see things implemented towards that - Online multiplayer.

Last note : Im not a fan of the D3 mechanics I prefer D2, but Im OK with them. I see D4 as an open world D3 and I think its really good.

If I were to see the things implemented I liked I would be thrilled. Hoping for a few of them.