Shouts Resource Gen vs others - Fix Request

Shouts currently give- near 100% uptime and…

12fury/second (echo)
`70% fury gen (Tactical Rallying Cry/Prolific Fury) which increases almost +20 fury/s when you consider rings.
20fury flat - which bumps to around 45.
3 fury on damage

Whereas –
Berserk Fury gives 3-6/s. AND berserk time is capped to 5 seconds unless refreshed. We also have to use another legendary just to use this bad boy for a 5 second refresh. Skills are chains/lunge/upheaval/double strike/deathblow.

The second issue- Finding a second resource aspect to compliment your build that can come close to the 14 fury/s difference of berserk fury and Echo/Bold/Rally. Raise the resource gains in other resource aspects like berserk fury for barbarians to see some different playstyles pop up.

The limitations on alternative resources should be even more apparent why they need to be boosted (have to be berserk, have to leap, have to play rend, have to cc, have to heal 25% hp, ect). These all need significant increases to compete with Bold/Rally/Echo’s.

(Please God don’t nerf bolds/echo/rallying again in attempt to balance).

Can we get some likes to this- adjusting resource numbers seems like an easy first step in fixing some alternative play styles from shouts before next friday.

Shouts are 3 active skill slots. Berserk might not even take a single one, depending on build/paragon. I think there is more to both sides than just fury generation, and you can`t say “oh well berserk’s fury generation needs buff because shouts generate more”.

My guy, I think you missed the point here. I’m not arguing anything about 3 spells and what else shouts brings to the table. This is about other options on resource regen. Spending Fury is what barbs do and we are forced to play a certain way.

Other resource generation aspects require skills as well- either too under tuned or too niche for all majority of content.

–Other Options–
Keep in mind you’ll be playing with a basic skill for fury while shouts you don’t have to AND the basic skill doesn’t compare with what shouts are bringing to the table.

Close Options
Berserk Fury 6 fury a second- Must be Proc’d by skill or wrath. Additional aspect not required for every proc spell, but for most- is required. (2 aspects + 1 skill).

Slaking

  • 20% fury at a 60% chance on bleeding targets. Doesn’t proc off expertise. So whirlwind and rend options here.

Umbral
4 fury on cc. Took a big hit from hamstring but could still be managed. Just not consistently.

**Non options. **

Giant Strides-
Leap- 9 second cd reduce for 40 fury. 6/fury a second IF you land a leap on max targets every cd. Speed farming yeah, World Boss, NM push, PVP- nope.

Assimilation
Up to 10 fury on dodge- dodge build/pvp build or general speed farming with a lot of hits incoming. Not for pushing boss or high-end NM. MAYBE some possibilities here if built right.

Unrelenting fury-
20% back on kill. Great for speed farming hell tides and low nm dungeons? Not going to be there for endgame fury sustain. Not for world bosses, not for PVP. (core+1 aspect).

Starlight
40Fury on 25% health increase. Invigorating fury gives 9% for 100 fury spent. With the highest fury dump Hota, constant swings (which no one can sustain) it would hit every 6 with unbridled rage. Fury kick build with Invigorating MAY be an option if it influences the heal due to the speed at which it spends fury.

Shouts have a problem with both (1) design and (2) effectiveness post-nerfs. They are separate issues.

Design: shouts are definitely the most effective strategy but they take up three active skill slots and without them Barbs are gimped. So you have to take them and you won’t even engage in combat (at high level endgame) without them, but it means you have only 3 slots left, one of which is often taken up by a defensive skill Iron Skin. So that means you effectively have 3-4 passives that are not at all engaging to use.

Shouts should be consolidated into an offensive (War Cry + Rallying Cry) and a defensive (Challenging Shout and Iron Skin). Barbs should be able to do work even without them, and when they are used they should be situational like Wrath of the Berserker. Meaning they should last much less time and be used very strategically so they are actively engaging rather than just a standard pre-buff for every battle.

Effectiveness: right now Barbs with shouts are adequate, but we are absolutely pathetic when they are down. The window of effectiveness keeps getting shortened by (1) nerf to shout effect and lengthened cooldown back in first round of nerfs and (2) nerf to CDR in latest patch. So we are dependent on them, and less able to use them than before.

Crappy situation all around. Barb as a class needs a fundamental re-design. This says nothing about our really lacking DPS at high end, esp. in single target situations. Our best DPS skill, HOTA, only matches others but unlike skills like Bone Spear Necro that can sustain that DPS, HOTA can only burst. So we fall WAY behind. We also lack easy ways to apply vulnerability, whereas Bone Spear literally applies Vulnerability with every single cast and no limitations unlike Exploit glyph that only gives us a 3 second window every 20 seconds. That means we have very very limited windows to apply burst DPS and our burst DPS is only equivalent to the sustained DPS of the better classes. This is completely messed up.

A big part of that is that Barb paragons are super weak. Necro/Rogue/Druid have multiple 15-40%x global DPS multiplier paragon nodes. Our one glyph with more universally accessible multiplicative bonus only gives 8%x lol. Others give ~8-12%x but are tied to weapon types that most won’t choose for other reasons (or that can’t be used with HOTA, our best DPS core skill). Those others can only be stacked with that one 8%x glyph.

The reason why our paragon is so weak is that we get access to more stat sticks. But, (1) that isn’t going to be make up for 5+ missing global multipliers (extra stat sticks give us 1-2 more multipliers through aspects) and (2) the affixes on those stat sticks are now nerfed.

Our only core skill that has sustained DPS, whirlwind, was nerfed into the ground. The rest of our core skills have burst DPS. Burst DPS HAS to be higher than sustained DPS, for obvious reasons. This worked well enough when HOTA bug existed but it was clunky / not accessible for controller players, and it’s now gone. So if we are confined to burst DPS only, we need access to DPS that is HIGHER than others, not equal or less. HOTA is only equal because it has the Furious Hammer multiplier on top, the rest of the core skills lag way behind without that.