Should The Best Gear Be Reasonably Accessible In A Seasonal Format

PC General Discussion
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As the title states, should 3GA Legos and 4GA Uniques/Mythics be reasonably accessible to get dropped/crafted for 3-month seasons without the use of the external AH or no?

There will always be RNG involved with these games, but I put in ~150 hours into s7 and I found 1 usable 3GA Lego (that I essentially bricked in tempering but that’s besides the point), 3 4GA Uniques and 1 2GA Mythic. I was able to work with trading on discord/dtrade to get some better gear, but that takes away a big part of the enjoyment for me in getting that drop that you’ve been grinding for.

With s8 looking like it’s going to have potentially worse droprates, I just wanted to get everyone’s feelings on how accessible the BIS gear should be. I personally think 1GA items should be pretty common in T4, and the goal should be build pushing and getting the pieces for finalizing builds.

No, I don’t want gear handed to me or others freely, I am fine putting in a grind, RNG is part of life, but finding exactly 1 usable 3GA Lego in that amount of time seems…overkill?

What is a reasonable amount of time investment to get a build close to BIS in a seasonal format (2GA+ all slots), if at all (note I don’t think 150 hours is enough, but I also think I should’ve gotten closer than I did in s7)?

What changes (if any) would you make to that end?

Edit/Note: This isn’t a discussion about clearing capability, obviously you can finish all the content there is to do w/ just 1-2GA items.

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1 - The Quest for BiS Gear: A Pipe Dream

We need to acknowledge that finding a 3GA Legendary with the right stats is as rare as finding a Mythic with 2 GAs let alone 4. These items are meant to be that “wow” piece that only a few will ever see. That rarity is part of the grind, and it’s what makes those drops so exciting when they do happen.

2 - Time Spent vs. Reward in a Heavily RNG-Based Game

150 to 200 hours over three months seems reasonable for reaching a decent gear setup. This could include 2GA Legendaries, 2-3 GA Uniques, and maybe a 2GA Mythic if you’re lucky.

The problem is that players often hit around 90% of their build’s potential quickly, which makes the remaining grind feel much slower and less rewarding. That last 10%, or realistically 3-4%, becomes a slog, and the lack of visible progress leads to disappointment, even after hours of farming. So, it boils down to: Is it worth it?

3 - Personal Goals and Expectations

Ultimately, your goals shape your experience. If you’re pushing a build to its absolute limit, it could take far longer than 150 hours to get there. The question is whether that’s a reasonable time commitment for a season.

While the Eternal Realm offers more flexibility (just due to no time constraints), class balance changes can make it hard to guarantee your build will be as strong in future patches. These games are designed to keep players chasing loot, and while player expectations may evolve, that core concept hasn’t changed.

The key question remains: Is the grind worth it to me, season after season?

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There are already PLETHORA of good items, the problem is that most that play most seasons up to the ended up having ALL of them

So the devs are forced (yes, literally) FORCED to come up with new items every 3 seasons (or even redesign some of the old ones)

Had they not created every piece of “endgame” content 200 times beatable (or worse - required to be 200 times beaten), there would be PLETHORA of items for players (even today) to search for

The problem isn’t that there aren’t enough items (again, there is a ton of them, the game pretty much feels complete at this point in terms of itemization - more on that some other time)

The problem is that

  • the ONLY WAY items to get an upgrade is repetitive playing of exclusively content designed for the “endgame”

Introduce a proper crafting/upgrading/resetting whatever system ffs, some people are even maxxed-out on MATS (yes, just read someone had 999k Rawhide lol), make a proper system for crafting out of THAT (as opposed to force players to play NMDs over and over for a MW run)

Don’t add unnecessary “time sinkers”. Slow it down (baseline) if needed, don’t waste people’s times, make the game interactive DURING playing (not required to do endless repetitive runs - and even worse - endgame-exclusive repetitive runs)

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Randomly finally got a Grandfather…MW 4x got life as the affix upgrade, 8x got the all stats…

I did find it running Beast in Ice to get boss mats for Andarial.

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To an extent, I think so.

750s allow builds to come online (highest non-ancestral that allows 2 tempers.)

But there’s not a slight power gap between that and ancestrals - there’s a huge one due to several differences between the two.

Ancestrals have higher affix ranges, have greater affixes, can be tempered four levels higher, and can provide higher level aspects.

It’s not hard to get a good ancestral for most slots but generally this will be a single GA, sometimes two. It’s very unlikely that you will progress past that, though. I feel it’s necessary because of the power gap between 750 and 800 to be able to reach 800 fairly easily, but progression stopping dead there sucks.

Let’s look at a couple other problems.

Let’s say you have a 1GA and get another with slightly better rolls on the non-GA stats. Is it better? Are you progressing your gear?

Well, first you very likely need tempers equal or better than the piece you had as well, to have an upgrade. Because rolls are limited, you could easily fail.

But even worse than that is masterworking, imo. Your crits need to be as useful as the ones you already have for it to be an upgrade on top of rolling good tempers, and generally that means trying to get all 3 crits to be the same (even if you didn’t bother for specifics on the first one) which is an incredibly laborious process.

All for what will probably be a tiny overall upgrade.

So no; maybe 3GAs don’t need to be easier to get. But actual progression needs to exist one way or another, and without gimping the starting point and leaving the current effective end point the same.

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HELL NO
Absolutely not.

It was so much better when you didn’t know if you were even going to see a Mythic in a season, much less expect to see one. Now you expect to get every Unique and Mythic you want … and now there’s a conversation about getting 3GA/4GA versions?

This is a game about exploration and combat, not a checkbox simulator.

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See, you just had to say that word :popcorn:

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Maybe Blizzard should make Ancestrals truly rare and remove the expectation of having them. Then tune T1 for having full 750 with a coherent build… T2 when your 750 build is optimized… T3 is when you have gotten a handful of precious ancestrals that elevate your build… farming T4 happens when your build is powered up with multiple ancestrals and maybe a key mythic that fully optimizes some part of your build.

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This,
We need good gear to be actually rare, and the whole tempering “crafting” part of the game to be less punishing… some how

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Definitely not the end of the Seasonal Journey. That’s is a milestone, but not the finish line.

Recently, seasons end for me when I can’t bring myself to run one more Pit. i don’t play Meta builds and never speedrun Pit 100+ or anything, so leveling those Glyphs take time. ^^

To give you a direct answer … I probably play 9-10 weeks of a season across multiple toons before I start playing something else. I’ve been dabbling in other games already this season.
The wife and I will play couch co-op all 12 weeks of the season, but just a couple hours a week at most.

EDIT: I don’t have a milestone I stop at. I quit when I’m not interested in continuing. I think that’s an important distinction of Diablo: there should be no finish line, especially not Seasonally. you should never get perfect gear. You shouldn’t even get a single perfect Item

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12

The problem is with Greater Affixes. It becomes incredibly difficult to balance as there exists an enormous rift between a Greater Affix and even a Maximum Affix. Adding Masterworking on top of this blows the system up entirely.

Because Greater Affixes are a guaranteed value with a huge multiplier on the end, you have an issue. There is no such thing as gradual progression. You either have a GA and can progress or don’t. Blizzard has left no nuance or gradual progression to the game.

This means it is reasonable that GAIII gear be obtainable for players in any given Season. If however GAIII did not exist and there was just a simple range and perhaps more challenging content has higher potential Affix rolls, this would be a much better system.

GAs need to be removed for a variety of reasons

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Imo we should differentiate between best gear and rarest gear. Those do not have to be the same at all.
The rarest gear can very well be side-grades, that just offer some unique mechanisms, opens up new ways for builds to work etc. without being stronger.
Mythics should be that in particular.

The rarest items should not at all be reasonably accessible. Perfectly fine if someone wont find a specific mythic item, that is not more powerful than other items. As long as there are plenty of other good options.

So, yeah, the best items should be fairly accessible. The rarest items should not.

As for greater affixes. Honestly, just get rid of the system. Or at least reduce it to max 1 GA per item, that at least might offer a meaningful choice of sort.
Increasing all the affixes is a fairly meaningless thing, just bigger numbers for the sake of bigger numbers.

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I have never once since GAs were released gotten a 3GA that is actually usable.
2 characters playing since the gear reset of VOH and I have 1GA in all but three slots (2GA.)

Good gear is already rare, to the point progression past base 800s isn’t really a thing.

Your second point I agree with, though.

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I like the difficulty of finding them, the game is already extremely easy. But 3 GA items should be more valuable, sometimes when recycling they give a different material or 3 tempers or 16 MW. It would be interesting to have another layer of itemization, today from the 1GA item to the 2GA or 3 GA item the power is minimal, except for some builds where some multipliers are double, like the Rogue’s precision key, which in addition to increasing the critical, increases the multiplicative.

  • It would be cool if the 3 GA items were more valuable. Another option would be to combine any 3 3 GA items and generate another 3 GA item. It would be something to do with them.
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TBH I think both the GA and MW systems are terrible

They sound decent on paper but in practice just makes it that much worse

What should probably happen instead (IMO) is a proper Socketable-crafting system (not just Gems but Jewels, Runes, Sockets for Paragon)

Basically, anything that takes away from the RNG and adds to more (or at least a bit trial and error) experimentation

Think GA is fine if it works only for Blue items (or maybe Rares too), but having Mythics with 4GA just… Come-on :person_shrugging:

As for MW I don’t even… I mean I get that maybe they add some value to NMDs but it would be just better to create a proper crafting/upgrading system (create some dust or whatever to increase a type of certain affix, there are like 10 types of plants and mats already in the game, could make it so that even Cinders and Obols can get into equation - use them somehow)

2 Likes
18

Dare to dream…
Something I’ve been asking for/suggesting for a long time.
Power should, imo be: Character Skills first, Aspects define the build, Unique items add minimal power but maximum identity and Mythic items refine by adding utility but are not in any way mandatory.
Flavor in build design minimizing “meta” and maximization of options vs feast or famine all-in DPS power creep necessary ~ mandatory items and a hugely imbalanced game due to it.

As for “Accessibility of Rare items”?
That’s a debate as old as gaming…heh.

Eternal should be on a totally separate server and a “simpler” static game that’s not balanced around or impacted by Seasonal Powers, which it indirectly is time and again.
Eternal should also be the benchmark of “Balance” but alas…

Interesting idea.
Some form of actual Crafting or Upgrading!?
Little bit of Player Agency and control??

Try this one out…you inspired what I hope is a good endgame crafting chase and means to supplement slowly as we develop chars, grind xp and farm…

Let’s keep it nice and relatively expensive.
(Just throwing numbers out there - please be gentle if it’s imbalanced and suggest what numbers would be appropriate!!)
Every GA item on salvage also gives a GA fragment(materials tab ofc boa).
3 types of fragments
1GA 2GA and 3GA(Uniques aren’t part of this, just Legs for brainstorming).
100 1GA Fragments = randomly add 1 GA to an ancestral item. ie. A 1GA item gains a random GA - a Crafted 2GA.
75 2GA Fragments = randomly add 1GA to a 2GA item. ie. A 2GA item gains a random GA - a Crafted 3GA.
50 3GA Fragments - Reroll a 3GA item with new Affixes.

Optional System: - 1GA frags upgrade basic 750 to ancestral and randomly upgrade one of the 3 Affixes to GA - same with 2GA and 3GA fragments.
Save those trifecta 750’s!
It doesn’t change the Affixes - straight upgrade.
Should be VERY costly.
Give purpose to 750’s.
Gives value to “trash ancestrals”.
Since there’s currently no actual Crafting (outside of Sparks/Mythic) be a nice QoL?

Is a non RNG direct upgrade broken(second system listed)or if costly, would it be niche for “acceptable rare gear acquisition”?

Edit- wanted to add: Crafted items don’t provide X GA Fragment. They’d break down normally - no loops.

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19

I would like to see masterworking and enchanting more expensive (mats and gold) to just let you pick what you want (consider the prices to be what it would take to get what you want under the current system, on average.)

Both of these mechanics are “when, not if” and I’d rather spend the time farming the mats and gold then sitting at the blacksmith or occultist.

I’d like to see tempers start at the lowest roll when applied with the user picking the ones they want, and upgraded with farmed mats towards their maximum roll.

When the player gets a new piece that’s better, there should be an expensive temper transfer that destroys (no mat refund) a chosen piece of the same slot to transfer the tempers and values to the new piece (masterworking does not transfer and needs to be re"purchased.")

The only RNG should be on what drops.

This would allow for rng to remain central to the loot, with crafting as a deterministic, farming-based method of progression.

Then, if a better piece drops, lucky dang day! Transfer your temper progress, buy your enchantment if needed, buy your masterworking. No “am I gonna brick this? Will it wind up not as an upgrade after all?”

I want to farm and grind for progress. Not pull slot machine levers nonstop on top of farming and grinding.

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There’s a lack of crazier itemization. I like that in POE you can corrupt the item and have an exclusive and unique item. In d4 everyone has BIS… not 2 Ga or 3 GA. But everyone has the same weapon and the same tempering in the same builds. This is bad. We should have special items with 3 sockets, with 4 affixes, items with special affixes, etc.

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I think one thing that might help some is when enchanting a GA slot, the item retains it’s GA value. It is just insanely rare to find 2GA items with the correct affixes (let alone 3GA). This would at least open up some more useful items. Also take away the weighting imbalance and life per second/chance to restore life affixes entirely.

Tempering needs to be RNG on values, not whether or not you get the temper you want. Make it more expensive as a result.

MW needs to have reset breakpoints (0, 4, 8) so you don’t spend hours trying to MW one item.

Wishlist: I’d prefer if GA was dropped entirely and 800 items should just have higher base roll values. Say 100-150% of the 750 range and be plentiful in t3/t4. There’s too much of a gap between 750 and 800 items atm.

Mythics are too accessible, get rid of the crafting of them and double their drop chance off bosses in t3/t4 imo. The expectation shouldn’t be to have the perfect setup early in t1/t2 and just tinkering/minor upgrades in t3/t4. There’s a real lack of feeling of progression atm and so many uniques are rendered useless too early on because of it.

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That is why we need ad-hoc use of Tempering

In fact think the best way to do this is remove all the “Legendary” tempering manuals and then just add Temper Scrolls (or whatever the name) as a one-time use package/drop

As for the “maximizing” and/or “optimizing” I’d rather have Paragon Sockets instead of new item types tbh

Though I think yo;u’re correct (not all items that are rare - or legendary for that matter - should be temperable)