"Seasons" versus New characters, Leveling-speed; Let's talk it out

Diablo 4 inhabits kind of an interesting space between Diablo 2 and 3. Skills and abilities obviously skew towards D3 (even if the general ebb-and-flow of combat is still quite different), while leveling up is absolutely in the vein of Diablo 2.

While I don’t quite know where I stand on D4 as a whole just yet, I think we can all agree, it does have a distinct feel that sets it apart. Obviously, we’re all going to have preferences either way, but that’s a separate discussion.

What I want to talk about is what Diablo 4 is, and how the idea of “Seasons” fit together with that, both for good and for ill.

In my mind, it all starts with the Leveling process.

In D3, leveling up is so trivial, I honestly think you could cut it from the game entirely and the game would be almost entirely unchanged. Again, whether you like it or not, that’s just how D3 is designed; it’s more of an “Arcade” experience than a traditional RPG.

Because of that, starting a new character each season is equally trivial. Sure, your power resets each season, but in roughly 30 min of gameplay (even less if you’re carried), you effectively have your playstyle back to normal, so you can just focus on acquiring better gear again.

As a stark contrast to this, leveling in Diablo 2 takes ages. I’d love to see the actual stats from Blizzard, but I would wager than less than 3% of players ever have a character that hits max level.

That’s because the game isn’t designed for your to hit max level.

D2 have three static difficulties, and it’s not so much about “overcoming new challenges”, so much as seeing a gradual progression in becoming more effective. If you’re playing the game as normal, you can reasonable expect to be able to kill every enemy you come across, though they’ll give you fits and occasionally kill you. As you progress, those enemies become easier and easier, until you’re eventually focusing more on speed farming than overcoming some impossible challenge.

The leveling speed reflects this, as you can spend weeks or months playing and only be in the level 70-80’s range. Most people don’t care all that much about level, because the game is also about gear.

However, also as a stark contrast are D2’s approach to “Seasons”, which in D2 are referred to as “Ladders”. Unlike D3, where leveling a new character is little more than a formality, the idea of starting a whole new character is a MAJOR commitment. Because again, you’s likely spend months playing and never achieve max level, and drops are rare enough that you might not even reach your desired playstyle for weeks or months.

Which is why D2’s Seasons/Ladders typically see less engagement; because the investment in a specific character is so much higher, players don’t want to throw all that progress by the wayside. D3, by contrast, characters themselves are largely disposable, since you can recreate them with virtually no effort.

So, where does Diablo 4 sit?

Well, given that leveling takes a significant amount of time, I think it’s reasonable to assume it will sit closer to Diablo 2, in terms of investment in your character. Leveling is obviously a much slower process – which, to be clear, is PERFECTLY FINE – but it does mean that players are significantly more invested in their specific characters.

So I imagine players are going to be much more hesitant or unwilling to start entirely new characters all over again.

That is, I think, part of the concern I have with the approach to Seasons, particularly the “Season Pass” model. I’m not “finished” with my current character (a Sorcerer), and I certainly don’t want to do it all over again. That’s not a knock at the game, but simply an acknowledgement that D4 is a greater investment than D3 was.

Additionally, because the Season Pass will also cost money for the cool cosmetic things, it means that if I’m not ready to completely start my adventure from scratch, then I also shouldn’t spend money on the season pass.

It’s essentially a Lose-Lose scenario; as a Player, the Season Pass isn’t a source of excitement but instead frustration, and as a Developer/Publisher, it means I’m less likely to spend money, which also means less resources to develop future content for me as a Player… the cycle repeats.

Now, right now people are complaining that “leveling takes too long”. Well, it really depends a lot on what the context is. Does leveling “take too long” in D2? Well, if your only goal is to hit max level, then yes, D2 takes too long. But D2 also doesn’t gatekeep content or better drops behind being a higher level, either. So it’s not really a problem.

My concern is that Diablo 4 is designed around the idea that players are going to hit max level, but at a very slow pace. There is a great deal of content and loot that is locked behind the numerical level of your character, than being something you can overcome at your own pace. After all, gear is restricted by level, whereas D2 is was restricted by stats, which you had direct control over.

Again, that’s not suggesting D4’s design is inherently good or bad, it’s simply acknowledging how it is different.

But for a game designed around a much slower pace, that does sort of work against the notion of “Seasons” or “Season Passes”, which lend themselves more to fast-paced progression like D3.

For my own part, I don’t think this is a matter of “make this one change and everything will be great”, because this is a fundamental design issue. I think Diablo 4 is a game that was designed one way, and the addition of Season Passes are something that go against that design structure.

Personally? I might suggest something like each “Season” is something that doesn’t necessarily require a new character, but instead allows players to push their existing characters to new heights. Maybe it’s something like increasing the ilvl of drops (relative to your characters’ available gear) by a few points, or even raising the level cap by 1-5 levels. Those things don’t necessarily need to go away when the season ends, either.

My thinking being that if Diablo 4 wants players to invest in their specific character, then Seasons should encourage that. Where you are encouraged to play the character you most enjoy, instead of where we are right now, where I kind of want to play a Barbarian, but I would be punished for starting one now instead of waiting for the new Season.

Again, food for thought.

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Good read…thanks for this.

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I really liked what you said here. This whole post was thought out and well written. It was refreshing. I am in complete agreement. I love playing new classes and such but I doubt I will invest much time in alts on D4 as it stands now. I would rather focus on making my main, a barbarian, better. As of now, I have no interest in seasons. That could change depending on how the dev team handles it. Thank you for posting!

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You’ve contrasted the 3 games well.
Some might point out you generalized a bit or chest thump about “time it takes ME” in any given game - but you hit the ‘average’ player range pretty squarely.

With D4 - it’s 100% dependent upon how they structure the Seasonal content and IF there’s any XP boosting that will happen.
Structure: Challenging, interesting and worthwhile - or is it the same old hamster wheel every 3 months?
XP and Leveling: Will it be slightly or + accelerated or will it be the same grind at the same pace with “efficiency” being king(ie. the nauseous 60 second 1 floor dungeon clears, exit dung, s/e, rejoin, repeat…)

What concerns me the most is: Alts. They said that “It might be more worthwhile/efficient to level an Alt than to respec”
That leads to Gear Level: With everything dropping at our Main Class’ level - unless one plans ahead and saves some early gear - Your Alt leveling is -
…1. Asking someone to spend their precious time to “power level you” or
…2 same old slog grind…with an Alt.
Alts to me are icing on the cake and something I do to allay boredom/change it up from my main. I certainly don’t want to have a remotely equal time investment in a side project as I do my main.
For Blizz to have this “philosophy” about leveling Alts - there really should be something done about Item and Aspect levels being gated behind 70’s 80’s etc.

Overall good post OP.
We’ll see if there’s anything to the “Push your Max level characters further” - That might end up being the case in the Eternal Realm and only that Realm.
There’s almost a Rule at HQ and this franchise that states: Seasons(in Diablo) = fresh start. End of discussion.
But we’ll see.

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Blizzard, I agree with this post. I want a battle pass that I can keep working on my main or create a new character.

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Appreciate your very reasoned approach to discussing this topic.

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said.

Characters in D4 require heavy investment and it feels counterintuitive to start new characters. I also am leaning more towards just playing eternal and skipping all seasons which is inherently a bad move for the ROI blizz is looking to generate on each season.

This is something where I look at looter games that have attempted to keep the player invested in a single character and the things they did right.

Take destiny 2 for instance. Their initial looter model could have easily been lifted from Diablo, but we won’t discuss that.

What they do well is that character progression feels new each season. You could be max level with the best gear at the end of a season and at the start of the next it’s a level playing field. Working through the seasonal content gets you halfway to your goal of being max geared for the hard content.

Each season brings new modes, mechanics, and content. Each thing allowing you to feel like your continued investment in your character is rewarding.

Some of the best moments are when you reach the apex of gearing and can tackle the tough content reliably. And you get this feeling every season.

I wish Diablo would take a measured approach to this. No one would need more than 5 characters. We could invest to our hearts content. Each season would allow us to continue that investment and relive those moments of finally reaching a place where you feel over powered, even if it’s only temporary.

I’m sure the dev team is hard at work reevaluating initial concepts and choices right now in response to the community. I appreciate their hard work and will continue to support this game. I just hope they can reach some sort of compromise after seeing how a large portion of the community doesn’t want to feel like their character investment and playtime was a waste of time.

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It made sense to have seasons with all of the prior Diablo’s; when the maps where random and there was no persistent over world. Random maps are what made seasons great. It took the chore out of the grind. Really, the only thing that’s random in D4, is the loot.

Like others, I don’t think I’m a fan of starting from scratch every 3-4 months, because I don’t have the time to sink into a game, like I used to when I was younger. And really, what is the point? A top spot in the leaderboards? Who wants to contend with a streamer, where video games are thier life? I sure as heck don’t.

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I ain’t talking about nothing. I’m going to play the game and have fun. Feel me?

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I wish there were more contributions like this to these forums instead of the incessant whining and flaming about things people are unhappy about. You raise some solid points and offer some constructive suggestions and feedback. I think this game has great potential with a few changes and hope that people don’t kill it before it has a chance to mature.

My thought here is they could make a change to the world tier progression that would help with potential issues with seasons. Make Tier 1 like normal in D2, levels 1-50, happens real fast. Change world tier 2 so it’s 50-60, 3 so it’s 60 to 80 and start slowing down the progression around 75-80 to make getting to 100 in World Tier 4 in a season feel like an achievement. Getting to the end of tier 3 should be fairly quick and not 100+ hours of gameplay, but getting to max level should feel like an achievement and not a requirement.

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Super well thought out post.

The season pass is 1000% causing a lot of the hate we have currently. Because like you said we have to restart when 99% of the playerbase is no where near even reaching 70+ yet alone having a fully geared character. The thought of having to reset every 3 months when people have not even finished a single character is rough.

If the seasons were just a fresh restart for the people who enjoy pushing for the #1 leaderboard and the season pass was not tied to it in anyway people would be more open to it.

As it stands myself and most of my friends have a class we want to level up in season 1 but after that unless some major changes come we are all split on what comes after season 1. Some are just dropping the game and waiting for the RoS style update and some are not touching seasons and just going to play around in the eternal realm until an RoS style update comes.

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Tell that to the potions cats of death on hell mode…

They stated the free pass and season will have Xp increases and quests to help you level the entire time… So idk why people are super upset either.

Free Season Pass… gives faster leveling, while to get cosmetics you have to pay. Paid pass is ONLY cosmetics…

Think of D2 and D2R ladder. There were runes that LITERALLY could only come from grinding the ladder worlds, and they were 100s of times better than those that werent…

But starting over is an ARPG thing.

Gearing in most ARPGs are done around 65-75. Then you just grind to 100 and do PVP or some other endgame to try and just get rare items

After 75 in POE, you are fully geared. You finish atlas maps (Which are not that fun) then you grind mindlessly till you get a mirror or other super rare item. Thats just how these games have been and D2 set that precedent 2 decades ago.

If you are waiting for RoS style update. you may be waiting foerver. Blizzard does this thing where all Expansions are planned before game launch. So the next 2 expansions content are basically already set in stone as they already started on them. They also stated they are not going to shift towards how D3 played. More people quit with Loot 2.0 than they did from the Auction House…

This game is going be more like POE where Seasons are extra gear and some QOL and nothing else really changed.

POE Gearing, level restriction wise, is very much like D4 which is why it seems strange that people are even mad. D2, POE and D4 have all launched the same.

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I’ve said this (in shorter fashion) in many posts. I appreciate your thought out response. I want to continue my journey with my main, not start fresh every 3 months. If people want to do that, let them. Put seasons on eternal realm too, give people the battle pass, make the content interesting, have the leader boards still, everyone is happy and not just seasonal players. I have never cared for seasons in any RPG period. I definitely hate starting fresh unless that is a choice I want to do at that time. I also despise the idea of having new content gated into a 3 month cycle, which must be started from scratch.

I had no idea that D4 would bring back seasons , especially to the battle pass. I don’t want to start from scratch just to access the cosmetics. It’s definitely disappointing and it has me rethinking whether I want to invest any more time and money into this game.

I’m in the clan of people that find the leveling incredibly slow (and rather boring). While I did like a lot of other stuff in this D4 (story, side questing, exploring, world boss, events), the leveling part is hurting me more than I would like to.

Which indeed, wouldn’t be so hurtful, if I could progress towards an objective like beating harder dungeons and stuff like that. But the fact is not only it gimps me to level up (because … itemization is kinda lacking atm, pretty sure this will be improved fast), but it also not feel great for builds to needs thoses parangons points that are so far ahead.

I don’t mind season reset, I’m used to that due to diablo. But I would like Diablo to remember the improvements D3 made instead of absolutely want to copy everything that made Diablo 2 (it’s a 20 years old game, it’s not perfect by miles even if it was pretty good at the time).

So, I only recently returned to Diablo 4, and glad to see some folks resonated with this post!

I ducked out of all of the previous seasons, so I can really only judge them based on heresay, which I’ll keep to myself. It definitely feels like they’ve settled into something much closer to Diablo 3 with this season, as I was able to get a character to lvl 100 in probably less time than my original character took to hit lvl 50. I think the Story is absolutely worth experiencing once, but being able to skip it is definitely a relief (I might replay the story if a Paladin-type character ever releases).

I’ll say, I do feel like the “Legendary Aspect” system makes loot feel pretty boring. Being able to just make all of your best-in-slot items doesn’t feel amazing, and it feels a little bogged down by a bunch of competing systems and currencies that aren’t super intuitive, or fun.

I still stand by my original point, though, that I find myself extremely unlikely to ever want to play a new Season with a Class I’ve already leveled in the past. Getting to lvl 100 certainly isn’t the end of the world, but it did feel like a slog, really up until level 80. It was only once I reached lvl 80, I felt like I was actually playing the game, because I could actually wear armor that dropped.

I suppose I wouldn’t be opposed to a “Rebirth” option like Diablo 3 had, where you can maintain a lot of your character-specific stats and progress, but just starting a new level and experiencing whatever the new content is.

That said, I still kind of dig the idea of each season, increasing the level cap or item-levels by a few points, and just allowing us to continue progressing our existing characters. Maybe have a separate “Seasonal Skill-Tree” type of thing, so you’re still “earning XP” towards something, but more as a kind of borrowed power that can introduce new ideas, but goes away at the end of the season.

Again, just something I think is worth thinking through. I feel like I’m kind of “done” with the current season, but in a good way; I feel like I had a pretty good experience, and accomplished anything I really cared about doing. I may play next season, particularly if there is any sort of a true “Whirlwind Barbarian” build.

But with this being the fourth season (I think?), not to mention when the game launched we weren’t even in a season, that would mean if you were someone that only wanted to play a new Class each season, then you’re effectively out of options; you will have to start a class you’ve already played next season.

And while I can’t speak for anybody else, I know I wouldn’t want to re-level a class I’d already grinded through before.

Just something to consider. I feel like it would be cool if we had new classes introduced the way that the mobile games seems to, but I suppose the expansion is coming out later this year so a new class is on the way regardless. Definitely hope it’s something really cool. The supposed “Spiritborn” being nature-themed doesn’t sound super exciting, but who knows?