I’m curious why you haven’t shown that a battle pass of any kind is actually included in the purchase we made. You keep throwing out “included” and “you already paid for it” but from when I look at the contract we agreed to all we bought was access to Blizzard’s game called Diablo 4. It’s almost like battle passes are separate from Diablo 4 and not actually “included”.
You don’t get all goods and services for every product automatically. Not how the world works. But what about when later down the road AFTER your transaction is complete they give you something? Yeah, that’s at no extra cost which as you know already translates into free. That’s why you didn’t get back to me with the definition in your last post. Had to skip it or you’d prove yourself wrong.
It doesn’t matter that you bought something previously, for users of the product (no matter how you got it) it’s free.
That’s why for over a thousand years since our species initiated trade we’ve known how it works. You are the outlier that’s screaming into the void. You ignore the mutability of language, how trade works, and history all so you can rail against something that’s not even part of the argument, apparently to make yourself look smart. Look how that’s backfired.
No those two are definitely not the same.
Free => Anyone* can access it
No additional cost => You can access it, if you already paid previously
(* = “anyone” might sometimes be limited to a certain group, as long the limit is not based on paying, like a country might offer free education system, but it only applies to its citizens.
And of course, that education system isn’t exactly free either, as someone else are paying on your behalf, but the important part is that the person receiving the education do not have to pay, neither directly or indirectly, making it free for them)
It is literally impossible to access and use the Battle Pass without accessing and using Diablo 4. Hard to argue they are separate entities.
There’s a mile wide gap between being in a closed eco system and paying for.
You have to ask who would buy digital content for a game they don’t own, who is selling that content to them? No one is the answer to both. “But I bought the game” means you bought the game, transaction over, end of story. Anything after that is free.
You can’t say something is included with something when it’s not. Period. Battle passes are a separate product, the free content in it is to entice people to purchase the premium battle pass, not to buy Diablo 4. We have a contract that tells us battle pass content of either stripe is NOT included with Diablo 4, and it says the same in every game EULA I’ve ever read. Because battle pass content is a separate product on purpose.
What you and Alte are doing is including the price of the game as purchase for a different product. That’s not how it’s ever worked, that’s why so few people… only you two… are saying so. It’s not a reasonable argument. Are you saying a free aftermarket air intake for the Honda Accord is not free because you have to own the car? No you won’t because that’s foolish even though you still have to own a specific car to get any use out of it.
If anyone can get it, without showing proof of purchase of the car, then sure, it is free. It does not need to be useful.
Not saying you are wrong, nor does it matter for the topic, but can you quote where that is said?
That initial purchase is a requirement for accessing it. That is a fact.
Nor are the different products. Heck, the “Free Battle Pass” is not even a product. It is just a feature inside a video game.
The Whirlwind skill is not its own product either. Let alone a separate product from D4. Nor is mastercrafting, regardless of it not existing at release. Just an inseparable part of the game.
The Premium Battle Pass on the other hand is a product. Still one that requires Diablo 4 to use (and afaik also to even buy it?) of course.
It does happen. If you buy a service like Amazon Prime, you are getting MTX for semi-random games, that you might or might not own.
The ones selling you that content do have an interest in this; if you suddenly have MTX for a game you don’t own, you might be more likely to buy or install that game.
(which is also why they might sometimes give that kind of stuff for genuine free)
They haven’t used the battle pass free or otherwise in this way for Diablo 4. They have for OW2, so why not D4? Because it’s not the same thing. False equivalency.
Like the car example, no one is going to buy the part or even accept the part at no cost if they won’t get use out of it. D4 is the same, a closed eco system with separate transactional items. The number of people who would get into D4 if they see there’s a free part of the battle pass is so insignificant that it counts for zero. I’ve yet to meet or hear from a single soul that has ever bought or even played a game because of a battle pass, free or otherwise.
The imaginary use case scenario doesn’t create a valid argument. Again, because human society throughout all of history since the existence of trading has made this an understood thing.
Blizzard definitely have been giving actual free cosmetics for Diablo 4, through Twitch. Without requiring people to own the game to get it (but of course, being quite unable to use it, unless they got the game).
Likewise, Blizzard has offered D4 cosmetics through Amazon Prime. https://www.gamesradar.com/diablo-4-prime-gaming-rewards/
I sadly wouldn’t be surprised if they exist Heck, a few people on this forum sound like prime candidates for that. In D3, it was quite normal to hear people saying they only played a season to get some cosmetic from the season journey.
But it also seems irrelevant for anything being said here.
They should always add all content to both season and eternal realms at the same time.
S4 is better than previous seasons in this regard, but yeah, it is a shame they didn’t go the whole way.
I said battle pass. We’re talking about the battle pass, which is why I referenced OW2 where they actually do give away battle pass their skips through Prime on Twitch. Cosmetics are not the battle pass.
More so, giving away cosmetics on Twitch Prime is a method to get something tied into the game for free with no requirement to use it. It would also be the same if they did give away the free battle pass stuff. That kind of negates the entire content of being forced to buy the game. You can absolutely own something that’s billed for D4 outside of ownership of the game. Granted I would say it’s kind of stupid to own something you can’t use but some people am I right?
Just out of morbid curiosity I went to a nearby store and asked 10 people to weigh in on the topic of discussion. I started by framing it with the car analogy but said it was a ‘62 Shelby (I don’t even know if that’s a real car) and aftermarket air intake. One of the 9 said they would keep the air intake even though they couldn’t use it and 9 said they’d keep it and sell it. I changed it and said they couldn’t sell it, then all 9 changed to not taking it at all. I then asked them if it was a video game, this thing I’m giving them would be free but they don’t own the game, would they buy the game. Most said it depends on the game. I then asked them if getting this free thing would be the sole reason for buying the game and all 10 said no.
Of course this is a limited sample and 4 of the people were people I had known previously (I shop there too much). It’s not like a conclusive study but it leads me to believe that the idea behind giving away a free digital product for a game someone doesn’t own will not have an impact on the purchaser.
It does however reinforce my prior statements that the free thing is not for the original purchase but bait to buy a future purchase (the premium battle pass). In that regard it’s clearly not something that’s dependent on the prior game purchase. So being a part of the eco system is not actually a dependency on the initial game purchase.
You can’t retroactively add product to the cost of your initial purchase, which is really what is being described. Alte and yourself are ignoring the transactional nature of a purchase.
Maybe this will make clearer what the free battle pass is meant to do:
You get a membership to Costco, either given or paid for, you get the membership. Now you’re walking around the store and people are giving out free samples of stuff because they hope you’ll buy that item. You don’t add a made up cost to the initial membership, those [samples] are free. They’re free because they want you to be enticed into a future purchase. They’ve already captured you in their closed ecosystem and want more of your money but it’s the future, not the cost of your membership.
The free battle pass is still not a product. It is just a part of the base game.
Nobody are saying that the purpose of “free battle pass” isn’t to lure people into buying the premium pass. Obviously it is. Heck, most of the game design is to lure people into that.
It is still factually correct that you paid for being able to access that “free battle pass”.
Just like it would be true that to access those “free samples” you had to pay your membership fee.
The premium battlepass is a good thing for the game in the end. It’s fun to complete, you get nice cosmetic rewards, and they are even so generous to give you 700 silver back, so your next one has a 70% discount basically.
That’s not how the world works though. You’re saying what Alte does, “the air you breathe isn’t free because you need to buy food and drink or die”. That’s just an absurd interpretation.
Transactions have an end. That end is stated. In the case of D4 the transaction ends at the use of Diablo 4. Battle passes are not included in the initial purchase contract. It is by definition a separate transaction. You cannot add 2 transactions together at your own desire. That’s not how transactions work.
It doesn’t matter if you bought D4 or not because the battle pass is separate from it.
Just like Costco, you’re not sold access to free samples. The samples are the starting point of the transaction. If you’re so intent on saying the samples cost something then it’s tied to the future purchase, not the membership.
Again, the rules of transactional behavior disagree with the entire premise.
That is your interpretation, and yeah, that is absurd.
There is no transaction involved with the “Free Battle Pass”. It is not separate transactions. It is not two transactions. There are no transactions to add together.
They are just a part of the game the same way the skill trees, paragon boards, druids, etc. are.
Then you don’t understand what a transaction even is and what are you even doing participating in this conversation?
I don’t think this line of thought will get through. I mean, Alte blocked me because he refused to believe something that’s directly part of the battle pass is a part of the battle pass. The concept of anything in the battle pass being part of the base game is so absurd because it’s literally called free battle pass items yet somehow here we are.
Heck, a few people on this forum sound like prime candidates for that. In D3, it was quite normal to hear people saying they only played a season to get some cosmetic from the season journey.