TBH I’m shocked at how poorly this class was developed. It’s not only underpowered A F, but not remotely fun to play, and other than constantly having to evade enemies attacks on Rogue’s thin skin (which is a BUG not a FEATURE) there’s very little mechanics. In short, the class is a total disaster.
To be honest, not every class in every game is a total hit. But I’m shocked just how BADLY this class was designed. Other than a handful of barely-cool outfits, there’s literally nothing good about it.
For example, take a look at how cool Rapid Fire looked for Demon Hunter in Diablo 3 versus now… take a look at clearcut the mechanics for Rogues are in WoWm with all the variation between Combat (rely on skilled dodges, disarms, blinds and a good stun rotation), Subtlety (stay stealthy or behind opponent) and Assassination (work poison skills and kite). Here it feels like all three builds totality of mechanics is to just do some damage then try to run for your life for a bit.
If a fix was/is going to be made, I’d say the class needs an entire overhaul. From animations, to buffing stats, to entirely new talents this entire class is DOA and quite the stinker.
I don’t mean to be a troll here, the above are simply all facts.
Blizzard please fix this joke of a class. Its honestly not fair to those who enjoy playing this kind of character.
Hate to say this but i think youre doing it wrong. My rogue can destroy. Straight up elite/boss melting. On the contrary most all skills sync up and synergize pretty great. My damage rotation is drop to stealth with concealmemt > poison imbue > poison trap > twisting blades x3 > shadow step or dash out
Now of youre talking about a ranged build i wouldnt know thats not my cup of tea, but ive found theres many many melees options that wreck
I don’t know what type of content you are doing but in T45+ Nightmare Dungeons your TB rogue is just going to fall over.
There are a hundred million CCs (knock-downs, freezes, fears, stuns) and because you are melee any time you get hit by one, you’re probably dead (Concealment is an 18 sec CD and mobs seem to continue attacking for the first second after you pop it).
Ranged rogue (Penetrating Shot) can do just fine farming up through the early T50s.
However, they are just as squishy as TB is… the only difference is that you are ranged. So you are in danger less often.
As a lvl 96 rogue that has played both specs in Nightmare Dungeons T45-50s I’d say: Clear Speed: Penetrating Shot wins easily. Survivibility: Penetrating Shot wins easily. You are ranged, it is a massive advantage as discussed before. Durability: Twisting Blades wins because of the insane regen from the momentum passive aspect as well as being able to make better use of Temerity. Boss Killing: Twisting Blades wins. The longer the fight is, the more significant the difference is.
However, even in T50s, I generally kill the end dungeon boss as Penetrating Shot in only 3-4 three combo point shots.
All this to say, I kind of agree with the OP. Try watching a Werewolf Tornado druid clear a dungeon.
It’s disgusting.
They have FAR superior movement speed, they clear far quicker, ~5x durability, infinity times more survivibility (because they are immune to CC 95% of the time… not a joke), and kill bosses faster than TB does.
Mind you, I’m speaking from experience from T50 nightmare Dungeons.
There were quite a few periods of time where I felt like a bloody roomba because I literally couldn’t even keep up with how fast he was slaughtering stuff on the screen.
I agree with this. I played the Barbarian, the Necro and the Rogue and so far I find the Rogue the weakest and least fun to play. I haven’t died yet playing the Barb and Necro but with the Rogue, geesh. When you start comparing these classes, you will find that the Rogue class is the weakest (for now). IMO anyway.
Its hilarious how wrong you are and the fact you don’t realize you can (and should be) playing a rogue exactly like the WoW rogue you described.
That said, if you are trying to get through playing a cookie cutter melee build after lvl 65 in nightmare dungeons, you are in for a very bad time. I have inspected so many rogues who have zero idea what they are doing with their gear, so I am not surprised their is confusion. The class starts out great, but if you don’t adapt later, you are going to hit an insurmountable wall, and probably roll a Tornado LoLDruid.
To counter your “facts”, I believe Diablo 4’s concept of the rogue is perfection. Rogues are a visceral, explosive, tactical juggernaut with gameplay and a skill cap that is so far above every other class, you would wonder if you are playing the same game as a whirlwind barb or druid. Yes its a lot harder. No you probably wont get as far as one button broken classes, but at least you will feel like your actually playing a game and that your actions matter.
you are wrong but you are right still you are wrong what kinda answer is that? yours are “facts” or just your “opinions” on the matter still? these kinda answers contributes nothing but “I still wanna feel good somehow while seemingly offering another/counter opinion”? I get some people(especially teenagers) still looking for their identity by producing their own “original” opinions but getting further from common sense will only be counter productive and immature still
I agree with you. Rogue is very fun and strong. But it is the reason why it is fun that is making me hesitate on playing it. My reflex is very poor now and rogue like you said has a higher skill cap to play to its max potential. Hence so far been playing druid and barb. Sturdier class that can withstand more hits because of my slower reflexes. But I might still try rogue in the future though. I want to experiment with a range and melee combo where I thin the herd with range and go in for the kill for the boss. hehe.
It doesn’t really matter what core ability you are using… if you are trying to tell me that as a rogue you just walk into melee and tank while blowing everything up in T50+ you’re lying. There is not enough damage mitigation in the class.
Now, if you are playing super methodical and only pulling 1 elite pack at a time-- playing with some extreme caution. Sure, you could do it, I don’t doubt it. I cleared T50s on my TB rogue as well. It’s doable. It’s just unfun.
It’s not fun to get the triple frozen + nightmare combo elite packs that you just straight up die to as soon as Concealment/shadowstep is on CD.
You are simply not tanky enough.
Safety and therefor clear speed immensely increases with Penetrating Shot, I can clear the 50s relatively fast/easily with that build as being ranged gives you a form of survivability.
I’m not sure about balance since I haven’t played other class than rogue. But i play melee TB and breezing through NM T40-45 as a level 78. The rogue has crazy crowd control abilities but you need to play with uniques and the legendary aspects more. The ones used in public guides are basically very far off than what an optimal synergized build is. My current build allows a single dash from my rogue to freeze and blow up the whole room. The surviving mobs are basically either frozen or dazed and I just spam TB to clear them and the CC status just spread again to others with a single hit.
You need to CC them before they CC you, and rogue is very fast in multiplying CCs with excellent damage modifier to CC’d enemies, you can slow, daze, chill, freeze, knock back, knock down, so many options with the build. And if you get CC’d, you have 2 skill to break SS and concealment, both giving great mobility as well. I don’t feel slow at all even after the nerf.
Just try to experiment with all the options, try maxing your agility skills, try other subterfuge skills (smoke screen and concealment are very powerful if you build around it). Maxing your dash basically just give you additional 1 returning blade damage from TB and it reduces dash cooldown as well. Caltrops and the chill boots with frostfeeder glyph basically gives you almost instant frozen CC every time you drop caltrops. Using double imbuement / elements (poison + chill/poison + shadow/chill + shadow) also has extremely well synergies with some of the legendary aspects. Experimenting with lucky hits build also has so many options, you can be tanky / DPS / CC with the mechanics.
Try to experiments with all the options and I’m pretty sure you will be surprised with the results!
I don’t do frozen enchanted keys; they are dead keys indeed.
But my runs thus far have been fairly stress free, I can tank most stuff literally just by standing by there and spamming flurry unless it’s like an obviously telegraph or high damage AoE.
I’ve got like 7k armour almost and 7.3k hp so I’m a getting kinda thick in that department.
Seems more chilled out than twisting blades from what I’ve played.
There has been one pull I remember that have actually made me exhaust 9 health pots and I use a lot when a fight the butcher but that’s about it.
Pretty fun build, don’t know if it will last to 100, heck even 70 but I’ll keep going with it until it tapers out
So let me get this straight. You are claiming in T50 you are face tanking mobs with 7k hp and 7k armor while not using pots…
I am lvl 96. I have ~40% dmg reduction from my gear, 5.5k armor (one of my pieces has +9% armor to obtain even that) and 11k hp (about 2.2k of that is from gear).
At the same time you’re telling me you have to burn all your pots for the Butcher?
With TB or Flurry you should have the passive Siphoning Strikes and Butcher should be very easy for you.
Could you help me out here and explain to me how you manage to have 1500+ more armor than me baseline?
Because, as described above, this Corpse Axe in the 48 I just ran can melee me (non-elite, regular white mob) for about 40% of my hp.
How fast are you clearing these t50 nightmare dungeons?
Butcher hits really hard and really fast, I’m running the momentum passive and it’s actually really hard to get behind him or CC him to get the damage reduction bonus too.
What gems are you running in your jewellery?
I just invested in some armour on the paragon board and I’m running skulls.
I dunno, depending on the dungeon it’s like 10-15 minutes if it’s running smooth.
I can still get exploded from time to time, I did a random magic find 44 yesterday and actually got slapped and had my first fail for the character
Alright, my average clear time in the T50-52 range is about 8 minutes.
I’m running Topaz in my gear, skulls in jewelry. I also have 3 major armor nodes in the tree and 5 minor ones (the +50 armor).
The reason I’m complaining about this class is because my druid buddy is clearing the same tier of nightmare dungeons as me, but he’s doing it in half the time with 5x the safety.
Being able to do something doesn’t mean it’s not weak. I’m able to clear T50s just fine. But other classes aren’t “fine” they are CRUSHING them.
Idk what you’re talking about I was doing a nm49 earlier today, and yeah while it was insanely annoying to have my character be cc’ed for the better part of a minute while i Was fighting a cold enchanted elite pack, I was at no point close to dying being frozen in the middle of them.
I was playing without step to speed farm so granted, it my own fault, but rogue not being tanky enough to do 50s is silly.
I have had no problem clearing 45+ keys with a TB build at 80-90 using chills/freeze crowd control and shadow clones. Maybe the biggest problem with melee Rogue is shadow clone being a necessity for the 4-second cc immunity.
Sure man, post a video of you clearing a t49 where you are being CCd in a pack in melee and you dont die in a couple of seconds.
Otherwise i absolutely do not believe you.
If you are playing rogue and you walk into a cluster of mobs and get CCd without concealment or ss off CD, you are dead.
You people are confusing possible and reasonable.
Its possible to clear relatively fine with Flurry or TB in t50s.
It is not acceptable that rogues have to do it SLOWER and while being MORE SQUISHY than other classes.
If you were showing me t50 clears in 5 mins but we are also real squishy and have to play smart-- fine. Np with that. But the issue is rogues clear the content slower and die far easier than some other classes.
I shouldnt have to do less dmg and die faster while having a higher skill ceiling.
That makes no sense.
what kinda answer is that? yours are “facts” or just your “opinions” on the matter still? these kinda answers contributes nothing but “I still wanna feel good somehow while seemingly offering another/counter opinion”? I get some people(especially teenagers) still looking for their identity by producing their own “original” opinions but getting further from common sense will only be counter productive and immature still