Rapid Fire + Attack Speed (Bow vs Xbow)

Rogue
1

I’m curious because I plug numbers into the icyveins damage calculator (Is there a better one out there?), and the Bow always pulls ahead for DPS, whereas the xbow has higher damage numbers. I understand that a bow is pretty great for a RF build that’s perpetually casting Rapid Fire, and it’s actually pretty fun for those who haven’t tried it.

However, having switched to Combo Points, perpetual Rapid Fire is no longer an option. Which leads me here.

From what I can see, the only impact attack speed has on Rapid Fire, is the rate of recovery time after casting Rapid Fire. I don’t see any impact on the missile velocity or even the cast time.

Does anyone here have experience with this? I’d prefer an xbow because of the vulnerability gain, distant damage is one of the worst imo and the bow needs a change in that regard, but that’s probably low on the Blizzard Priority list. So if you’re only casting Rapid Fire once, not perpetually, and if my findings are in fact accurate to other peoples experiences, and I’m not missing something, then an Xbow seems better for a combo point RF build.

Confirm or Deny?

2

Good question, but I don’t know the answer.

However, the Aspect “Basic Skills gain [15–30]% attack speed” probably makes it moot, which I think is useful for builds based on combo points (or any build really, if they need to spend time waiting for resource generation (or combo points) and spends that time using basic attacks). With it, there are probably diminishing returns for the 0.2 attacks per second difference between crossbows and bows.

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3

I suspect that the more important distinction between the two are the affix distinctions between the two. Beginning with the static affixes above the line: Vulnerable damage for crossbows, Damage to distant enemies for bows.

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4

That’s what you think? I always thought that the difference attack speed has in weapon speed just needs to be exponential in order for it to make any amount of sense. Fast weapons need to have a significant speed advantage, if there are hard diminishing returns and it’s really easy to get slower weapons up to fast weapon speeds then it makes the entire concept of fast weapons entirely useless.

I really hope Blizzard is intelligent enough to recognize that…

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5

Two factors are more overriding:

One is that the affixes above the line for bows is not of any use for my rogue build. For crossbows, it’s Vulnerable Damage. For bows it is Damage to Distant enemies. While I loved being a ranged rogue in D1, there is a big difference in over all game mechanics.

In D1, I could use my bow to pull out singles in dangerous areas, and if I pulled more than I could handle, kite them into rooms already cleared and deal with them one by one, while Windforce, knocked them back. That worked in D1 because ALL of the enemies you fought were in dungeons.

So far, that strategy worked in D4 only in the Tier 3 capstone dungeon, using a long range skill to tease them out. That rewarded me with gear that I wasn’t even high enough level to equip.

But otherwise, D4 game mechanics don’t work the same way, which you probably already know why, but boils down to knowing that “Damage to Distance enemies” is not as useful as Vulnerable Damage.

Second is that the legendary Aspect “Basic Skills gain X% Attack Speed”, which can be as high as 60% when equipped on either a bow or cross bow.

Buffing Basic Skills generally is a good idea, the most important of which is attack speed, especially if you rely on Combo points.

So no, I don’t think Blizzard is intelligent enough to recognize that. Beginning with the fact that “Damage to Distant enemies” has at best, very situational uses for most rogue builds in D4.

Edited Note: Also, this person is my hero: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx3Dko8fBbI

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6

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it until something is changed.

The close/distant modifiers are the most idiotic design choice in this game. Why the devs would implement some crazy mechanic based on physical distance in relation to the player and then also be extremely cagey and unhelpful in regards to what the break off actually is, is beyond me.

They need to go back to the tried and true “ranged” and “melee”. Everyone understands it, it’s simple and doesn’t require absurd reasoning from the players.

A ranged attack uses ranged modifier, whether you are a screen away or right beside a mob.

Melee uses melee modifiers, whether you are right beside the mob, or have aoe that lets you hit from a slight distance.

This might actually be my biggest issue with the game that I feel needs immediate addressing. Everything else will improve over time I’m sure, but this I fear might never change. Which sucks cuz it is insanely stupid.

3 Likes
7

100% agree with this. Especially since the screen is so zoomed in and there is rarely a ‘real’ distant enemy to engage.

2 Likes
8

The other major consideration if using puncture to get combo points is that puncture will use the attack speed based on your dual wielded weapons, which eliminates the attack speed advantage of bows. This makes crossbows much better because they have a higher base damage per rapid fire shot.

3 Likes
9

I do agree. But even so, for a lot of rogues, Vulnerable Damage is unequivocal compared to “Distant enemies”.

Edited Note: The reason I posted the link to the Rapid Fire rogue clearing a level 100 nightmare dungeon was because that was pretty much how I had to play D1 as a rogue. Which was pretty much the only way you could play it solo.

In D4, the ability to do that is very situational by cherry picking the dungeon (although I can attest that it does work in the T3 capstone dungeon for at least getting gear upgrades you are too low level to equip. It does not work for the final boss fights, but the gear you obtained before that might help once you reach high enough level to equip it.)

And even in that Rapid Fire rogue link I posted, he’s using a Crossbow. But yeah, I agree it’s idiotic.

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10

Rapid fire would be so much better if the aspect caused it to guarantee chain to other mobs instead of ricochet randomly.

I remember using it, fired into a pack of like 8 mobs, every single ricochet fired back towards me at different angles and none of them hit another mob. Fired like 5 times total and like 1/8 ricochets hit another mob.

Immediately took the aspect off and never used RF for anything other than single target again.

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11

Rapid Fire has chance to ricochet to another target
I don’t get what you mean it turns to you.

Also the distant and close division is much better than ranged and melle, because you can hit with a bow in close range.