Please read this before you complain about level scaling

PC General Discussion
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I think level scaling is inherently good for the game, and I think complaints are almost (and we’ll get to why I say “almost”) all not really grounded in reality whatsoever.

Complaint #1: The D2 Comparison

“D2 had no level scaling, look how good that game was! This game sucks because level scaling is bad!”

A lot of people call specifically on D2 to showcase how a game can be really good without level scaling. Can anyone name a single viable end game activity to farm exp and hit max level in D2 besides 1000000 Baal runs? The gaming landscape is just completely different from back then. You’re looking back on it with rose-tinted glasses, but the reality of the situation is that we are now fully accustomed to playing games that have end games with orders of magnitude more depth than D2. If you need an example of this, look at Path of Exile. There are 4.5 hour long videos dedicated just to explaining what you can do in the end game.

Complaint #2: The Difficulty Curve

“I want to feel like I’m getting stronger as I level, but it feels like it’s getting harder and harder to kill monsters as I level up!”

This complaint, I actually understand and agree with. This is why I said “almost” earlier on. It makes sense when you think of it this way. Monsters obtain their strength through a formula, which means they are scaling perfectly. Players get stronger through skill points, item level upgrades, and build break points (such as the first time you get your shout cooldown ring as a Barb). In other words, while monsters get scale in perfect proportion to their level, players scale disproportionately to their level. That means that players can either gain 3 levels of strength or half a level of strength in the span of one full bar of XP, and that’s entirely dependent on their own choices and RNG.

The solution to this, then, would be to find ways to adjust the scaling relationship – not to remove scaling completely. Removing monster scaling entirely leads to a different, much larger issue, which I’ll get to in a second.

Complaint #3: The Removal Plea

“I don’t even understand why it’s in here, it’s just bad for the game! Why did you even put level scaling in the game when we asked for it not to be here?!”

What is the proposed alternative? Open up your map, and start naming the zones you think would hold level 2-5 monsters. Name the ones that would hold 5-10 monsters, 10-15, 20-30, 30-40, and so on. Let me know when you get to the ones that would hold the monsters with a level range from 90-100. What zone did you choose? Well, I hope you like that zone because this is the only zone you’ll do any content in ever again after hitting max level.

With level scaling, all parts of the map stay relevant for the entire duration of the game. That includes while you level, which means you can take more creative paths through the campaign or leveling journey (pretend Champion’s Demise doesn’t exist for a moment here).

Friends, this is a brand new game with years of content ahead of us. Until we’re shown otherwise, this map is our home for the next few years at a minimum. Level scaling makes sure that we can always use all of it. If anyone has any counterarguments for that, I’m listening. If anyone has any alternative suggestions to what they can do about level scaling, I’m listening. If you’re going to just complain and ask them to take it out without giving any suggestions, then you’re just complaining for the sake of complaining.

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You’ve hit on a problem of lack of endgame content, not a problem of level scaling. A lack of automatic level scaling and higher-level endgame content fixes both issues.

World tiers.

At least put a cap on it at which point the monsters scale, but are still below the level of the player. It feels really, really bad every time I level up and my % damage goes down because I can’t recraft my legendary aspect onto a new weapon but the aspect is still a dps increase over a rare.

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Level scaling is great, i can take my lvl 66 sorc and play with my gf’s lvl 28 necro without steamrolling everything.

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What level are that it feels bad every time you level up? The only difficulty walls I experienced were world tier jumps, and NM tier jumps every 10 levels. My character power goes up every time I level. I’m 93

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Do it similar to City of Heroes. Friends will scale when grouped regardless of comparative levels.

Keep the PvE scaling, but let players choose to set it between -5 and +5 of their level, with rewards reduced or boosted accordingly.

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The level scaling is great. Some people just need to play on World tier 1 instead of whining about it feeling bad to level up.

It didn’t feel bad to level up one time, and I’m level 93. I feel like my power has exponentially increased every level since level 80.

I kill packs at a run in the PvP zone, only pausing for a few seconds for elites.

I kill the Helltide boss at my level in 5 seconds now. At level 60 the encounter timed out and he ran away after 5-10 minutes…

Some people don’t have the grit to play an ARPG and they need to play another game.

They’ll never understand that you get more powerful as you level because they’d rather complain and quit than push through.

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d2 baal runs = d4 cd/eridu runs before the hotfix - in the end after reaching 100 yesterday, d4 xp grind was more fun for me, because i could do this solo too without looking for groups. but on the other hand, it felt like a poe single arpg grind, /shrug.

too bad lvl scaling in dungeons goes to max lvl95, soo it took longer:p

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I have no interest in always being able to use all of it.

I just spent levels 1-40 in doing Act 1 (Fragmented Peaks, I think?); I’m totally bored to death of that area and have absolutely zero interest in going back. I imagine it’ll be the same for the rest of the areas of the game, where I end up spending so long in an area for the story and side quests that, by the time I’m finished with it, I never want to have to go back.

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I’m fine with end game being as it is for launch. I don’t feel like mob density makes sense and dungeons are not to my liking. There is far too much running on repeat. My biggest problem and complaint is that the core game is broken and a lot of builds for every class do not work right. It is frustrating to spend all your time and upgrades into something only to realize it can’t perform or does so at a tenth the speed of something with far less. Class balance and bug fixing should’ve been far more flushed out.

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You could have gone to a new area at any time, but you decided to stay there for 40 levels? This is a great example of people choosing to screw themselves and blaming it on the game.

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No offense but I don’t think you’re really listening, since this last month or more and even into the Betas has been filled with complaints about level scaling. And almost every other game for the past 20 years has figured it out in one way or another, not saying that they’re all good but it doesn’t take rocket science.

And if it does Blizzard needs to send all their employees to work at NASA….

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Level scalling makes everything seem fake, curated and empty.

I really hope they step away from this model in the future , or at the very least step away from it past level 100 and teir 5

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If you are having a problem with level scaling it is a sign that your build is wrong or you need to upgrade your gear. Figure out what you are doing wrong and fix it.

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This is actually an example of people trying to work within the confines of the renown system in its current form. There is no other way to do this. Especially on your first playthrough before you’ve cleared the campaign. New players don’t have access to all of the major waypoints yet and unless they’re blowing past all of the side content and worrying that they’re going to miss something critical as they familiarize themselves with the game, it’s going to be the majority new players’ first impressions with the game.

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There’s no other way to do renown other than complete each area 1 by 1? That’s weird because you’re the only person I’ve heard of that did it that way. I finished my renown at level ~85.

You know you can walk or ride or teleport between zones at any time right?

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Level scaling doesn’t actually do much if you have the right stats on your gear.
I had gear from level 30 into 65. It worked fine because it was the right stats.

This is to say if you’re fighting something your level or no more than +10 levels on you.

When it gets a little silly is once you start to fight things high than 10 levels on you. Most flat DR sources cap and armor / resistances suffer massive drops. It doesn’t matter how good your gear is after this point. All you can do to fix the issue is level more.

Everything is going to bomb you due to your level difference. That is the flaw I found at least.

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You’re right, which is why the current system effectively separates content from 1-50, 50-70, and then 70-100. Would you like 10 world tiers total for each level bracket?

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You can’t even finish renown in a zone until you have finished the campaign. The campaign leads you to new areas. Better when doing the campaign the first time to not get side tracked and go to the new zones.

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Great! It’s not rocket science, so do you mind suggesting an alternative like I asked? Because saying “just fix it, it’s not rocket science” without suggesting anything is not the type of complaining I said I’m listening to.

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The Act 1 story quests were in the area. I’m not going to skip to Act 2 & 3 story quests while I’m still doing Act 1 story; I don’t want to jump ahead in the story and miss something.

And since I’m in the area and there are side quests, might as well do those too now, since they’re here and so am I…

Oh, and hey, there are Altars of Lilith in the area too. Might as well get them too while i’m here. That’ll fill up the renown and give me bonus stats. Score.

Oh, and there’s dungeons too! I might need those aspects for when I start doing alts. Might as well do them now, while I’m already here. Plus, it raises renown too, and I’ve already got a good bit of that with the Altars and the side quests, so might as well just get it done.

That’s how I got to level 40 without leaving the Fractured Peaks. And also why I have no interest in ever going back.

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