Once again the D4 dev team dumps on D3. Everything positive about it that I like (the power creep, the multiple torments acting as magic find/difficulty and progression, and the pace at which skill lets you accelerate through them) they raise as negatives and failures. Are my interests and what I find enjoyable really that out of touch with what everyone else likes?
I like playing overpowered builds, I like power creep. When I reach my skill ceiling and can’t break through, getting those new power tiers is what makes the game fun.
TL;DR
I could be more opposed to the D4 views expressed.
So from a systems / process improvement standpoint, the bigger issue is to root cause the error on why the nerf needs to be done and how it was overlooked.
The idea here is not to repeatedly have this problem right?
Really depends on what you like in a video game and what you’ve grown up with. I’m going to make a big assumption and guess that D3 was probably your first experience with an ARPG? Not a bad thing by any means, but it’s a very watered down, fast paced, cliff notes version of a typical ARPG. It offers instant gratification with uncapped power (or at least it did until season 29). This is just speaking objectively mind you, comparing it to its predecessors and alterations over the years.
This is where the community is torn. Some want a more lengthy average ARPG experience that offers difficulty and quality over being overpowered and quantity. Others want the opposite. Neither side is wrong, but it seems the D4 devs are trying to strike a balance between the two and just angering both sides.
I liked both D2 and D3 myself, but for different reasons. I also feel they were products of their time. As such I feel D4 should strive to be better than both in its own way though. How that can be achieved I have no idea, I just know it’s having an identity crisis at the moment.
Purposely designing power creep in d3 to bring casuals withint striking distance of the no lifers progression was a questional decision in the first place.
Maybe more pandering to casuals?
Since there is a gear ceiling and theortical skill ceiling, the casuals should have been able to catch up enough without the power creep.
99,9999% of the content in Diablo 4 is so easy & trivial, even a ape who hit his head against the keyboard can beat it.
I hope they nerf the character power to the point where only perfect min/maxed builds can barely beat endgame content…ofc only with good player skill involved.
i personally don’t agree at all and i think no build should ever be overpowered, but if that’s your thing then keep copying meta build to have easy mode i guess then
them nerfing current meta build won’t change the fact that there will always be a meta build which will simply be another one instead of LB or hammer
Great, I want more of that please. I think I understand what you are saying though but I wouldn’t say "watered down ". I would say “trimmed the fat”… its a concentrated gameplay that lets you get in and focus on exactly what you want… I have very limited play times, D3 is great at facilitating that.
BINGO thats why I love D3.
They have reverted the paragon capping again so its back to glory.
100% look at posts 2 and 3 they are exact polar opposites. Question is which is a larger/more profitable segment for blizzard to target.
I think D2 is one of the most overhyped games, its GREAT for its time (and I thouroughly enjoyed it) but I have/time has moved on the same game doesnt fit me any more (much like wow-raiding doesn’t suit me more - I don’t have the time but I have a lot more money now).
Well said Iggi, you and I see things quite a like.
Being unstoppable God and destroying everything effortlessly within seconds is only fun for about as long.
I think it’s safe to say the majority of the fanbase - myself included - was thrilled by the initial impressions of the beta precisely because it was a slower, tactical pace more akin to D2.
The current state of D4 notwithstanding, Adam Jackson is 100% correct in his views about balance and I’m glad he’s in charge.
Keeping my fingers crossed they fix Rupture at last and properly buff some more skills (especially minions)
PERFECT dissection of D3!!! The no lifers HATE it, the casuals LOVE it. The no lifers can grind and fish for the perfect rift and end up ~10 GR tiers higher then casuals (with the same gear as casuals).
It comes down to which end of the spectrum you land on… I used to be hardcore when younger but now am in NO WAY like that but D3 lets me relive for a moment that feeling.
This is why D4 will struggle to meet the financial goals it has set out for it… the Dev team just don’t get it. They want to make a “hardcore” POE-like for the mass market… that market doesn’t exist, “hardcore gamer” is a niche. Gamer is mainstream.
Fair enough. Also probably one of the better arguments for the D3 playstyle. ARPGs since their conception have been grindy, with the casual player base never really reaching the higher ends of the game. D2 is actually a good example of this. Sure there were a decent amount of people who hit level 99, but I’d venture a guess and say out of all the people who played it, the majority never hit level 99. The leveling process was fun, until it wasn’t, sort of thing.
With limited playing time and wanting to experience the endgame (which D2 didn’t have) and actually have a fun time with it, D3 made sense. It catered to the casuals but still let the die hard fans continue playing inching out their greater rift progress until they capped. Couldn’t tell you if this was the right or wrong decision as I don’t have player numbers to back anything up, but I do remember later in years certain new seasons caused issues with the servers due to all the players coming back to play.
I’m in the same boat actually. I was more die hard back in my youth with D2, when I could actually spend the time just grinding out levels and having a good time. I haven’t gone back to it since mostly because I’m pretty much done with the game, but I also remind myself of the gameplay. You level up slowly, with a bit of a challenge, and a stupid stamina bar that still makes no sense to me, only to repeat the same acts over and over again while obtaining loot, until you reach the end game of Baal runs.
Yes it’s repetitive, but for the time it was fun, when I had more time on my hands, so this argument makes perfect sense to me. However I’m of the mindset that there can be a happy medium. I don’t mind the leveling speed right now in D4. If our goal is eventually to have more endgame content then D3, it would make sense to have a faster leveling process to get there sooner. This means we kill things faster while leveling obviously, but our goal is to reach endgame content as soon as possible.
I always thought the billions upon trillions of damage numbers in D3 was just over the top personally. The numbers just grew to mass proportions and were never trimmed down. RNG in that game was just as bad as any other ARPG it just went by much quicker with the gameplay. The initial gameplay loop was basically just rifting anyway, which is similar to Baal runs, but at least it added a bit of randomness and more loot.
Now once we’re at endgame I would prefer a bit more of a challenge. Take my time with the endgame content and just enjoy it for a month or two. Of course the issue with more endgame content is how long will it reasonably last, and regardless of what you have, there will always be those people who can get through it in a week. We’ll see what they have in store though. Keeping an open mind, but also lowering my expectations at the same time.
I’d agree on this - I couldn’t enjoy D2 now like I did back then. I still play it to this day (D2R) but it is also at a very slow pace and in single player because I can pull the levers on D2 as I see fit (./playersX, etc) and there is no seasonal caring.
I am trying Last Epoch which has an amazing skill system it appears; however, I do question myself “can I ever fully dive into it?”
D3 and D4 to a lesser degree are very good at just letting me game for X time and not having a burden overtop. It’s good for my current life position but also leaves me wanting more, heh
How are they dumping on D3 when in fact they’re actively making D4 a carbon copy of it?? And fun… where’s the fun exactly in D4 they’re taking away from you?
