Im not looking into the top meta WW build. I just love the concept of reflecting damage. I know the obvious stuff, that you want the 2 thorns passives, thorn gear rolls, and thorn related aspects. But I would like to know:
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Is that thorn unique chest (forgot the name) MANDATORY, or just helpful? I dont wanna rely on getting lucky to find that 1 item to make a viable build.
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Are emeralds in armor a game-changer? I still want to be tanky and would rather put sapphires for fortify dmg reduction. Maybe a mix of emeralds and sapphires?
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Is Rend only used for the bleed dmg? Im mostly applying bleed for other effects, like the aspect that nearby bleeding enemies reduce your dmg taken. I use upheaval with the two-hand sword expertise. I like berserk’s uptime with upheaval’s violent upgrade.
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What benefit do I get by putting 1 point into the passive that slows bleeding enemies? I figured this is nice synergy, but not sure how this can be helpful at all.
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The 1 point into bleeds makes enemies slow with say great sword expertise makes every hit a bleed, every bleed a slow, and every slow is now considered a crown controlled enemy. So you can use items with affixes like +%damage to crowd controlled, +% damage to slowed, +% damage to bleeding enemies, +% damage to close enemies, basically it just opens up the options on additive damage sources. But never run for one of those over multiped damage.
Eddited fer spellings. Anglish note mah bestest.
Yes what the barb above me said.
You need razorplate, it is not optional.
HI Jonathan4210
EDIT: to start thorns build, the unique is not mandatory, until going to end game (level 80+) 3k thorns can do a lot of damage if scaled well and you can get this with only 2 peices of gear with thorns on it.
ive a bleed barbarian that i took into the thorns aspect, and it changed my life, made clearing so much cleaner and there are many advantages offered by thorns even if not using it for damage. using even low level of thorns is a must IMO for barbairan. but that said. here’s some tips:
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THORNS SPECIFIC: you will want maximum level emeralds in all armour, you can use ruby but it is no where near the scaling you would get with emerald. and dont wory about the fortification damage reduction stacking sapphire?. not needed at all. you will be super tanky with 3 aspects. and armour on gear.
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you will want to run the aspect: needle flare: on your 2H. to double the value of the enchant. either 2hander is good
Thorns damage dealt has a [20-40%] chance to deal damage to all enemies around you.
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i think every barbarian should run the three passives: 1x outburst (thorns from health) 1x tough as nails (thorns bleed), 1x hamstring (bleeds slow enemies). in doing this every enemy is slowed and bleeding around you and it gives you a lot of opportunity as you now have Crowd control enemies around you, bleeding enemies around you, and you have multiple sources of EDIT: hits to proc lucky hits. Alot of aspects and some stats use lucky hit. this coupled with above enchant works really well on many builds. and we use it for resources and fortification:
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fortification & resource: we get fortification in the above set up from: Aspect of numbing wrath. Each point of Fury generated while at Maximum Fury grants X fortification… this can go in any defensive slot (head,chest,leg) apart from necklace.
we then run the weapon expertise of the 1 handed sword: Lucky Hit: Up to a 10% chance to gain 5 fury when hitting a Crowd Controlled enemy. Double this chance when using two Swords… (that last part doesnt matter thorns is our fury generation).
you now have fury generation. and in turn fortification generation. but getting extra sources: fury generation, lucky hit, fortification generation on gear helps a lot
- Armour: you can roll armour % increase on every piece of defensive gear.(head,chest,leg,neck) i have 2 or 3 max rolls (7% base before upgraded>10% or more) and my armour sits natively 7.2k. This is because we also put skulls in our jewlery. This is a big buff to armour. The downside to skulls… you will have to pick up some resistances on your gear. (i went with boots, they rolled 2 of the resistances i needed) you want >30% or you will feel it. ideally 34%minimum upto 45% to the common elemental resistances. if you are significantly over this you probably overstacked. (unless you plan to pvp) fire, cold, poison I’d prioritise, i find most lightening mechanics are ground effects you can dodge. our armour and fortification is also blocking most of the effects apart from fire and poison. so make sure these are at good levels
MOST IMPORTANTLY: the neck enchant. you will want to run. Aspect of disobedience. this scales our already impressive armour really well with the above set up. all the thorns damage and bleeds bring this up to its maximum level as soon as we engage a pack. this will keep you alive. You gain [0.25-0.50] increased Armor for [4.0] seconds when you deal any form of damage, stacking up to [25.00-50.00%]. (values +50% on neck). this takes you to the happy side of 12K armor for most engagements
This is your base build. you can run anything you want around this. Stack thorns, go with any other build and skills you like. but i highly recommend:
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Additional defensive aspects: your remaining two defensive slots: i recommend: iron blood aspect: gain 2-4% damage reduction for each nearby bleeding enemy(up to 10%-20%). and aspect of might: basic skills grant 20% damage reduction for (2-6) seconds.
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i strongly recommend the challenginig shout and rallying cry. rallying cry with increased fury generation in this set up is better fortify generation than the other minor nodes. and challenging shout i take the resource generation again. the other minor node sounds great, but 6 seconds of extra thorns with a long cool down doesnt feel good to me. where as once im fortified i can stay fortified with ease. these only need to be at level 1 to be useful. if using 2 or more shouts pick up booming voice passive. and i really like the healing from raid leader. we are so tanky that the healing is enough for our needs.
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if going thorns, you will want to try and get defensive gear with max health rolls. and thorns. you only need about 3k thorns for good clear to begin, and above that you start getting very strong thorns. ( 1.75k is from the gems on armour) obviously how many levels below you are the mobs will impact this. im basing my advice on a level 70+ barb, running 30 tier nighmare dungeons and below. at higher levels you’ll want to stack more thorns, and aim for the chest.
sorry for the long post. there is a lot more i could say. i believe if thorns is the aim check out
Diablo 4 - Update On Carn’s Bleed Thorn Barbarian
edit reason: thorns is not direct damage, tested further, was another aspect causing the stuns i had attributed to thorns.
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Do thorns crit? Everything I’ve read says no but I’m not sure.
I ask because I put + crit damage on slowed enemies on all my weapons. It looks like there is some baseline variation in the amount that thorns does on the same mob, a high number and low number. Each number, the high and low, has a small variation but there is a gap between them.
I’ve only spent a short time making my thorns alt, but I know its not the variation when gaining or losing max health, berserk status, etc. Just baseline thorns damage.
Anyone can confirm for sure? Btw, thorns are great XD
I’m fairly certain thorns is not considered direct damage.
it says it is in one of the loading screens. and I am quite certain it is proccing my aspect
[Lucky Hit]: Direct damage against [Bleeding] enemies has up to a [20-30%] chance to Stun them for [2.0] seconds.
Does it say it on a loading screen? Direct damage is damage dealt directly. Thorns is indirect damage, and there’s a pretty in depth guide on it that says it isn’t considered direct damage in-game:
https ://mobalytics.gg/blog/diablo-4/diablo-4-thorns-barbarian-guide/
You’re proc’ing that aspect with a skill you use that deals damage, which is direct damage.
thanks for the information. I appreciate your point and I’ll test it some more.
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after further testing I realised only “ranged” attackers were getting stunned when i didnt attack… i realised it was another enchant that was proc’ed (used for damage to stunned buff) and causing me to think the thorns were dealing direct damage. updated my post to correct this. thanks again for the correct information.
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That was an incredibly insightful and helpful post. Thank you so much for taking the time.