Reason why it says ‘preliminary’ is because we don’t know for certain how it’s going to interact with the new Vaults and the Gauntlet as well as the fact that the Seneschal companion is an unknown variable.
In example, you’re aiming to get the highest score in the allotted time in the Gauntlet. You want the most powerful builds but also the most mobile. The hardest hitting might not be the fastest as you’re seeking to get in there, score, then move to the next objective, score, rinse and repeat.
What is known, is how these builds function and how the builds perform. The patch notes inform us of what it would be like going forward. We can expect that at season start, the builds will work and we can hit the ground running. With that said, let’s move onto the list:
Bone Prison and Spirit can be used to supplement Spear and as such, buffs to those are also a buff to Spear. With the buff to Ring of Starless Skies, it is as they say, “the sky’s the limit”
Bone Spirit just needed that extra push to make it viable in normal dungeon’ing and that’s what it got.
Pentadot relies on X’fals, and LHC on CE was nerfed, however it’s sort of offset by Greaves of the Empty Tomb. Nonetheless, it remains as a very powerful build.’
Blood Lance is losing the Vampiric Powers, namely Moonrise & Ravenous Combo which allowed it to perform unbelievably well. Overpower has also gotten nerfed. It gains a new Unique which sort of ameliorates Lance’s downsides in that the conjured Lances are not as powerful as the main Lance and the Lance that OP’s. Even though we lose Moonrise & Ravenous, we still have Rathma’s Chosen & Accelerating Aspect.
Surge has lost quite a lot and is actually losing more in the newest patch. We offset the losses in S2 with Vampiric Powers however we’re losing that in S3. With the nerf to OP and reshuffling of Bone Prison, our tools to alleviate the issues has diminished. Surge is still the best leveling spec however as an endgame spec, it leaves a bit to be desired.
There’s ways around the LHC nerf. In fact, the method that I found has not yet been found by the community. Mendeln scales pretty decently, can clear Uber Lil, can clear NMD100. Summoner builds by default are hamstrung by minions & so, on average they assuredly rank below the other specs.
I want to rank Razorplate higher, like around A. Iron Maiden specifically becoming a Darkness skill. It gives us an avenue to scale IM. We can take advantage of Blighted aspect and Shadowblight as well. Why I don’t rank it higher is b/c of minions (despite the fact that minions serve as a multiplier in this build) and at very very high levels, we’re talking about taking damage. Razorplate does very well on boss fights. Can one shot some of them such as Grigoire (as soon as he pops out, he’s dead).
There is actually a combo in S2 where you can get near limitless Blood Surges using minions, making Deathspeaker’s an attractive option. However we’re losing what makes that work, and also it’s minions. Why would you run Deathspeaker’s when you can run a sacrifice build that uses Banished Lord’s?
Bloodless Scream is sort of getting some assistance in S3. What it has going for it is that freezing enemies doesn’t revolve around LHC, so that’s good. The issue is that why would you run this, when you can run Infinimist? It’s actually build very very similarly. The build becomes very very hard to play at high NMD levels as you have to remain in melee range for Penitent’s to work it’s magic. You can instead run Infinimist and not have to deal with all that, but still have the same outcome and the play is even the same. Having Bone Storm active while in Blood Mist with x5 BCE.
Last but not least, we have Pure Summoner. I mean, it had to be seen with your own eyes. Devs actually NERFED minions! And minions ARE the worst in the game! Bar none! How do you, as a company and a developer DO such a thing?!? How? It makes no sense! It boggles the mind!
To add insult to injury, the minion balancing is not even a high priority thing for them to fix! Nothing is actually in the pipeline! Adam basically told us that they want to do it, but they don’t currently know how. That’s not good enough! This is your job, bro-ham! D4 is a product, one that people spend their money on and hours of their life on!
Minions ARE getting more damage but with multiple asterisks **** attached to it. We no longer have flat damage done by simply investing into CL. Damage ‘ramps’ up. That’s how Reanimation and Frenzied Dead works. You HAVE to build Minion attack speed now. It’s not an option. You have to. Kalan’s Edict is mandatory now. That means that you better be good at doing No Damage speedruns b/c that’s what you’ll need to play it. I’m a Resident Evil speedrunner & have been playing KE since the start, so I’m up for it. Let’s see how far I can go on the leaderboards lmao!
I just realized recently that with my limited play time as Casual, there is a big chance that I would never get Ring of Starless Skies ever again.
Last night, I played again and build a Bone Spear Necro just to get the feel of the Ring. It really helps with management of Essences… perfect for Bone Spear… better than from Blood Lance.
Compared to PentaDoT, Bloodlance, Blood Surge, Infinimist and Summoner, Bone Spear is 100x easier to play. High DPS and on range. AFter you CC them all, you could come to melee range safe while maintaining the CC. But this is Blizz’ pet build. They love this build. In addition, they buff Bone Spirit (a Bone ability) that would fit easily for Bone Spear. Oh well. If you want easier life on Season 3, it has to be with Bone Spear… Actually since day 1 of Diablo 4.
Yup. Most of why I ranked it A is b/c if you get Ring of Starless Skies, you get unlimited Bone Spears. It sounds like it should be ranked S but it’s not, due to the fact that it’s reliant on getting an ultra rare Uber Unique whereas Black River can be obtained more easily.
Same thing for me on casual play. I didn’t get any Ubers this season on solo self found.
Yes, on multiple occasions.
Don’t expect a viable build that has you standing in a corner while the minions do the “work” but rather involved gameplay with better control over minions and their abilities, plus some improvements to AI.
Devs said they don’t want the AFK build in the past and in the last campfire chat, they’ve doubled down on Minions-as-a-support idea, so really when they talk about Summoner build viability, what they actually mean is THEIR version of Summoner where it’s part minion damage part Necro.
The biggest issue with that of course, you can’t scale both the Necro and minions to do big numbers. It’s a matter of not having enough paragon points and affix slots on gear. There’s also an opportunity cost issue where why would you do that when Sacrifice builds can do tons more damage.
That’s not necessarily the case. You can have involved gameplay even with minions dealing all or most of the damage. It simply means you’ll have to press buttons for them to do anything. Minions just need to interact with/react to our abilities.
We’re Necromancers after all, controlling the undead. (Almost) nobody wants Summon-and-forget-mancers.
That would be fine if we had the amount of buttons like we would have on a WoW action bar, but we don’t. We’re also confined to 1 or 2 Curses and if we take those we’re losing other big options. Another thing is that if the game actually worked that way, then yeah that would be cool, but it currently doesn’t.
Way I see it, and feel free to disagree, I think the ‘beauty’ in Summon builds is not necessarily the actual gameplay but in building the skill tree, mods, gear affixes, and paragon. Like, if I built the best and farmed all the rare gear, then I should be the best. Currently that is not the case. The devs say, you’re not allowed to be the best if you’re Pure Summons. While ironically giving you all of the tools to build such a character.
You don’t need more buttons.
There could be interactions like “after you cast a core skill your minions xyz” or “hitting an enemy with x makes your minions do y”
Right but in alignment with what Unknown said, the game currently works a certain way, the devs have a history of doing or not doing things balance-wise, so all that combined together, we have to take things AS THEY ARE, and not how WE WISH them to be. Yes, it CAN be involved with Necro/Minion support, but IS IT currently? No it is not.
What this translates to in actual gameplay is that each “half”, that being Necromancer and Minions, exists “side by side”. Meaning, I can have Decompose and Blight on my action bar, while I have Raise Skeleton and Golem buttons right next to it. Decompose and Blight do not actually interact with minions, other than, if I initiate an attack, the minions will go to attack it.
So yeah. All the things you’re saying, we wish it did work that way but it simply doesn’t. Also in alignment with MrCute512, we have to adapt to how the game is CURRENTLY played. Not how we wish it would play like or try to do something the game does not currently support.
Serious question, but has Blizz actually said anything about making summoner build viable? I didn’t get a chance to watch the campfire.
This is what we’re talking about. I simply stated what AZJ said they were talking about internally and what’s the most likely scenario for a future rework. I’m well aware that this is not something we’ll get for S3 and likely neither for S4.
If the construct buffs your necro minions , summoner may be alot more powerful than you think ?
And howd they nerf them, they get multiplicative dmg now with speed , which is fairly easy to stack up , especially if the construct supports our raise skeleton skill.
I can see stacking 200% + minion speed easily for 100% multiplicative dmg , and with our skeleton ultimate, isnt that another 100% speed with 50 % multiplicative dmg ?
We’re losing the old effect, which was a 1.45 multiplier. Hence, we need 190% minion attack speed (90% bonus minion attack speed) to break even. AotD isn’t a particularly great ultimate to put it mildly and having to run the aspect sucks.
So if you clear 190% attack speed , its not a nerf ? And why wouldnt you? Especially if this construct supports your raise skeleton skill, then you have 4-8 skeletons stacking poison, lightning, fire , with an attack speed boost.
That ultimate with the aspect , may be the way to go vs bosses .
What aspects are there for minions anyways ? + to skele mages and warriors, + to minion dmg , + to minion speed on attack, golem has a chance to reduce CD, dmg reduction with 7 minions, max essense per minion , then army of the dead 70-100% more attack speed to minionsand 90 % dmg reduction…
So not much choice , youre gonna use + to warriors/mages , dmg after 10 seconds, minion attack speed … what else ?
Also, there’s at least a soft cap at 200% attack speed after which gains aren’t really measurable. This means that even at cap, the new paragon node is 1.5x versus the old 1.45x. There’s also the issue of ramp up time and low level scaling.
The ‘buffs’ (if you can call it that) are very very very marginal. It’s mostly for Shadow Summoners and you don’t even need the companion to do it.
Because with the old Cult Leader, you’re getting 45% flat “always-on” damage. With the new Cult Leader, you need to build 100% minion attack speed to have relatively the same benefit. With the way that Frenzied Dead works, you’re gaining attack speed OVER TIME. So that means the damage bonus is not “always-on”.
Sure but now it’ll take you time to search for gear with perfect rolls and you’re not going to see benefit as soon as you pick up CL in the same way as you did before. It’ll be a gradual build up as you’re getting more paragon points and better rolls on gear. Whereas in season 2, as soon as you picked up Cult Leader, your minions immediately hit harder.
Just make sure you select the Ferocious Eater title. Fatties need to be represented.
Probably starting with Barb myself. The Duriel farm loop is monotonous but more bearable when you can reliably 1 tap him. It feels like a good first character. I also want to try out a charge setup at some point. Charge into something and surprise… here comes four more… choo choo!
I might make a Bone Spear, Bone Spirit or Bone Spear/Spirit hybrid later. Just to leverage Mist cancel casting with Tibault’s in the first case. To go on an explosive adventure in the latter two instances. I’m getting the feeling Necromancer will be sorta kinda not good S3 though.