More storage (would pay) will be the #1 reason for playing more or not in the future

TLDR 1 = Need way more storage space, would pay for it, and the ability to do so will dictate future engagement.
TLDR 2 = “Technical constraints” really only exist if the DB or UI code is bad and that is essentially a bug, and/or there could be workarounds. This is a design/business decision and I would love if someone made a different one. “TAKE MY MONEY.”

If you care about the rest of this explanation, since I wrote it:

I’ve done my first deep dive on D4 recently after smaller burst after launch and VoH drop mostly doing story. Too many things were wrong with the game at first, so had left, but enjoyed VoH/S6 play more so wanted to come back when I could for a more solid pass. Got back again in the last month and after some messing around on eternal decided to play s7 with necro (which snowballed into 4 necros to hold all my builds) and am now closing in on finishing off season journey in t4. The game still has many problems but at this point is fun enough to play more seriously.

That said my love of Diablo games (mostly 2 and 3, I only played immortal campaign), and A/RPGs more broadly comes from messing around and creating new/different characters and builds. Things are complex enough that I will look up some guides for reference and help sometimes, but I tend to roll my own to make interesting combinations. This is the main draw of the game to me. The problem is that time is finite and (for the most part, unless something is super bad/silly and I toss the build in the dumpster), I don’t like sinking time into things and then losing access to them later. There are too many games that will allow me to save the work I’ve put in and go back to it whenever when it seems like fun.

Before S7 play I had 2 of each class and 1 stash tab dedicated to each class. Space was tight but I had not collected enough gear to flesh out a ton of variants and/or with some classes there were not as many builds I was interested in trying out, so could kind of manage with a single tab. I chose necromancer for a deep dive party because of always liking them, but also because it had a lot more I wanted to try (many version of minions, bone, blood, dark, etc., trying to make use of various abilities and uniques at least once).

So, now I have 4 necros with their armories slowly getting fleshed out with every build I am interested in under 20 (and maybe a couple close variants if they can cohabitate), and eventually their gear. Some gear like uniques can sometimes be recycled, but between stat priority/GAs/crits and temper, the more a build progresses the more each loadout’s gear will be it’s own. This will then take up about 4 stash tabs. Once I get back to eternal with them I will be forced to essentially turn all these characters into mules just in order to not toss out all the work (and/or trash the other classes storage i their favor).

So, I would to need a lot more space if actually making use of any build variety and armory slots. Theoretically I could use more characters slots or build slots as well, but lets just start with what happens if actually using what exists as is, which is 14 characters x 5 build x (9-12) gear pieces each. Even ignoring all the other items that might need some shared space (e.g., runes) this is not even remotely possible.

Side note: While later on in D3 I split 50/50 between SC/HC this game has never been stable enough on client or server side to want to play HC, on top of having much greater penalty for death than D3 and way more one-shotting or lethal mechanics/ground effects that are hard to even see or react to in time. Even as I wrote this the battlenet service is down for some time after booting me out of the game, so just no thanks.

Way back I saw some claims about some wonky code around stash/storage being a blocker. I’m not sure if all of the original/old issues have been resolved around adding more stash, but often “technical limitations” get cited as a blocker for this rather than business decisions. While in the short term a tech problem is possible, in the long term that is nonsense and anyone who has worked as a coder or even plays other games do more more knows it. If a modern CPU is taxed by loading an inventory UI, that UI code is terribad, and if a server is choking on returning a database query for items (when the game also handled way more players near launch anyway), then those areas have some either have inefficient queries/db design or some major hosting problems. This issue is a design and/or business decision, not a technical limitation (of systems anyway, though maybe for specific coders it could be, or bad technical debt could block it temporarily).

Honestly the entire franchise after (old) Diablo 2 has always been weird about selling character slots/storage space. Then you could make infinite characters on one game license even if stuck with their own stash. D2R made the shared stash situation better but then put on an arbitrary character cap that can’t be expanded (though with no account-based systems it is a semi workaround to just buy another copy with a 2nd account - I have done this). D3 was mostly manageable in its design by the end, though had marginal issues and for some reason we were never allowed to buy anything more despite the feature existing in China (different business model, but clearly not a technical limitation). This maybe made more sense in a “no additional purchases” world but not in a live service/microtransaction one. There is no real solid ground for not doing it in D4, just stubbornness or tunnel vision on design choices.

Some other A/RPG games allow for way more space to be purchased, and this spans both freemium and B2P business models and set vs. randomized loot. It is a design decision not a technical limit, and for some reason Blizzard/Diablo has been very hostile toward more space being allowed despite creating multiple games that would call for more if actually exercising your character/build options. Adding things like gear tempering into the game only increases that storage need by specializing your gear for almost every build, so why on earth then constrain the storage space to a degree that you can’t play those builds, or you only can if you have some much time on your hands that you don’t care about deleting character/builds you worked on in order to have space for the next one. Modern item/loot design that is has also evolved in ways somewhat meant to (for better or worse) put the player in situation where they want/need more storage and then buy it. To keep that style of granular/specific itemization but then constrain the storage space is counterproductive to both player and business (and/or MEANT to make you waste massive time and keep up someone’s “engagement” numbers by having the only option to try something new being to delete the old/current, which is probably worse).

If this was more like D2R I could wait for a sale and just make a second account, but there is a lot more account-based progression/unlocks and account bound items these days, so it is not a great option and also not remotely a good one for most people.

There are many possible “fixes” to all this design-wise, but the easiest one is super simple: add stash tabs and sell them. Other possibilities/combinations enabling more builds include adding a single personal tab per character like in D2R (just this alone solves almost everything), more character slots, armory slots, combining armory with storage in creative ways, gem/rune storage (and letting armory swap gems around if available), loading builds (not equipment, but paragon/skills/etc) from templates, and more, but the super-simple braindead simple that resolve most of these issues are just more tabs and/or more characters.

I have zero issue paying for this privilege at any semi-normal rate seen in modern games. If the game is good enough to play more builds in, it is good enough to pay more money for. I’m not the only one like this and I’ve talked to people both in Diablo games and in other ones about this type of thing. Whether they get scared away over time by certain decisions is another story but there are at least SOME of us still around and probably more that show up any time there is an expansion or major changes.

Sticking around more in the long term will largely be dictated by whether continuing to play requires me to delete a bunch of previous work that I can then no longer switch back to without rebuilding. Barring absurd price tags, time is a much more valuable resource than money and that opportunity cost when there are other games out there that would let me experiment freely and come back to old playstyles and ideas whenever desired will outcompete the current state here.

The bright news is for anyone like me there is a super easy solution: add storage space and take my money.

Now hopefully in some anyone sees this and/or cares, but I’ve done my due diligence saying it. Cue a few forum troll types with the urge to exclaim their churn-and-burn is the “right” way to paly a game and why would you ever need more builds than a few meta ones, etc. I could not care less. Many-builds is how I play most RPGs. It has been since the time of OG D2. I am not alone, and people like me also tend to actually pay money. It’s just a question of whether modern-era Blizzard wants to earn money form that/us or not. I hope they do. If not I’ll even play within their confines, it will just be a lot less once I’ve filled up my stash space with the gear for any build I liked playing.

6 Likes

Add your thread to the list with all of the others.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d4/search?q=stash%20space

1 Like

Strange, the forum search seems to have not hit on them right when I searched earlier (EDIT: my fault, just not sure why)? Oh well.

Thank you for the TL;DR … because GA DANG IT dude that’s a lot to say.

I’m not paying for Anything because I can manage my inventory just fine. :eyes:

8 Likes

I tend to pay for MTX when it adds to the game, like new maps or playable characters or modes of play. Costumes far less so, and QoL (like stash space) even less - just on principle. Basic QoL should be included, not paid-for.

I think I played one RPG game where the max storage was 10, but hey! Buy this for $9.99 and it’s now 99! Disgusting.

This is how I feel about Stash in D4. Give it to players outright or allow us to earn it in-game. But paying? Nah, I never will.

6 Likes

Exactly how I feel about POE 2’s Stash Tabs situation.

No… just no.

2 Likes

Plus 1 just for how long this is.

And yes POE 1 from 2013 is beating D4 in storage in 2025.

1 Like

As much as it pains me to admit, I’d pay for stash tabs at this point. It’s potentially a step towards p2w but stash management is painful at times.

2 Likes

Very legacy stash code needs a rework to address tabs, duping and likely vram leaks.

See no need to have to pay for the game to come into the 21st century.

Storage space isn’t needed for peeps strictly following a predetermined build.

If you’re trying things out it gets painful very quickly. This is the way a lot of people like to play.

2 Likes

Hosting a game for online play is not free, so I expect any game doing so to make its money somehow, even if in maintenance mode. The B2P model pays for something more than F2P, but ongoing costs get a lot more fuzzy. Saying a game that incurs costs to maintain and host “should” be offering extras for free is not realistic even if some giveaways are nice. There are also easy arguments to be made that more storage space, characters, and builds having an overhead cost to the company, even if in more sensible cases it is probably a smaller marginal increase.

What each person would actually use or care about to pay for is up to them. People enjoy different aspects and are willing to pay for different add-ons. The game has a base functionality that needs to always be there and can’t/shouldn’t be put behind an additional transactions because it would hose the gameplay (like say “if you pay us double you can now benefit from mainstat” of “you can now hit bosses with core skills”). If you only got 2 character slots to start in a B2P that would be gross, but there is enough space for characters/stash that many players won’t want or need more, so adding a transaction there for people who are clearly heavy users of that aspect of the game to pay some more for for the service they are using a lot is in itself not somehow “bad.”

If priced super high that might be ridiculous and unpopular, but it it was in the normal ballpark of other games selling character slots/storage I would see this as 100% fair and sound business. Also fair to not want or buy it, that’s more just a market demand question. Other approaches than just +tabs or some mix is also possible, but I don’t expect them to give it away for free.

1 Like

No, this is not POsheet. we dont pay for inventory.

dont u give them the idea.

#angryface

3 Likes

no, GGG cant even put a sort button in.

I wanna kill mobs, not playin “keep my stash tidy” game.

I have enough of that in real life.

3 Likes

I would agree I don’t want to pay strictly for someone to fix UI bugs, although that type of issue could be entangle here somehow.

I’m not up to date on what duping mechanic scandal could be involved in stash use, though if such a thing exists then people need to learn to use hashes/primary keys/etc more effectively so that there is a guaranteed uniqueness or else a key collision occurs and that would wipe out nearly all possibility of “duping” ever existing. This might get a little weird with generic items that stack like gems/runes so could forgive a bit of of SNAFU there, but otherwise something like that (while maybe complicated) is not “rocket science” and sad if blocking any features.

I agree that if you just play a couple meta builds, or even a couple per class, that the storage/char slots is enough. For me though I have 5-6 builds just for minion master necro. If you go down that road then there is not nearly enough space. With some item sharing I can condense it down some, but for ~20 builds it will be rough city. Anything even close to that for the 5 other classes is GG/RIP.

2 Likes

The duping is just one of the consequences of the legacy code that needs fixing, it’s not blocking progress rather is one of the justifications for progress to occur.

Business software solved atomic transactions decades ago, they just need to see the will for change. Stackables aren’t any more complicated to resolve with the fundamental issue addressed.

1 Like

Sadly though not having enough space is going to cause me an drastically higher time waste trying to triage times vs. just having the space for any build in my armory. Having to try to share more items between builds (can’t temper as specifically) or triage out stuff I would otherwise keep to use is way harder than just slowly getting used to what stats I want on different builds and slowly finding them. Still a lot of useless loot to sort but that is a different issue.

FYI I have not played any POE2 so am not sure what they are up to, but POE1 was OK with me. It was F2P model and I played some for free and then I paid them for some more character slots and stash. There are other B2P games like GW2 where add-ons also never bothered me as long as they were reasonable.

1 Like

The game already costs money, it’s not free to play. I really don’t see why you think they should monetize a feature like that :woman_shrugging:

It’s fine to want more space, hell, I’d love more too since I create all the classes every season. But seriously, I’d rather quit being a hoarder than pay for it :joy: :joy:

3 Likes

To be clear I would not refuse free storage space, character slots, or build storage if added and just handed out, and that is obviously not the point. I’m saying I don’t think charging for it is unreasonable, and think the profit motive would be a lot more incentive than just asking for free stuff from a corporation thinking that I’m somehow owed it because I paid for the base game.

Everything costs money and/or time (and unless someone is very young and lacking in responsibility is generally more valuable as well). Just because I pay a box price doesn’t mean then everything else is going to be free, same as I can go to the movies for one price but 3D, IMAX, or fancy seats are add-ons (or many other analogies, feel free to pick a parallel). Gaming might be the only entertainment industry where a significant (and/or vocal) portion seems to think that paying for one thing means not paying for anything else, but that goes out the window when games live on in online play form and its overhead cost instead of just an install disc in a box that is never supported again. If the game in it’s current state has X number of tabs or characters and I want double that, then they can feel free to charge me for it.

It’s how most of the whole world runs and at least in its basic form there is nothing greedy, corrupt, or unfair about it. If someone rather trash old build equipment than pay them a few bucks for more space that is an option. I personally prefer to switch around an play different builds frequently, so throwing it away each time would be highly annoying. An hour of work or some skipped take-out food pays for this type of thing, so there is no way I would want waste more time than that by flushing gear I would have to re-assemble to play the build again.

Don’t take offense, I clearly respect your opinion, but I completely disagree.
The company that sells its game surely conducts studies to determine the price. In this case, the amount we pay falls into the AAA category, and on top of that, we also pay for the annual expansions. That doesn’t exclude the sale of other secondary features like battle pass, skins (by the way, Blizzard has always priced these things pretty high), which can absolutely be up for debate. But since these aren’t relevant to gameplay, they’re not really a problem for anyone. Well, for some they are, but let’s be honest, it’s purely aesthetic and it’s up to each of us to decide whether we want to buy them or not.

There’s a big difference between free-to-play titles and AAA titles. Just like there’s a big difference between in-game features and cosmetic components. To each their own, but I wouldn’t mix the two.
If things ever change, I personally wouldn’t support that choice and would speak with my wallet, as I’m used to doing.

2 Likes

Just to see gear turn legacy every 3 months?
NO

4 Likes

sounds like you are a horder, why do you need more storage space. sell it or scrap it, why keep something that is trash after the season is over