Prove it. Make a video showcasing your gear, skills, paragon, and playstyle.
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I can do that too, I can clear higher than that, where I think the misunderstanding is coming from is that it’s not impressive or good performance, and it’s slow. Other builds do much harder content much faster.
Other builds clear rooms in less time than it takes the exploit glyph’s 3 seconds of vuln to fall off, that’s kind of how they flow as builds, kill everything in the first 3 seconds so you have 100% vuln uptime and keep moving forward, often with less clicks too.
You can’t pretend that passive minions is even remotely close to clearing at this sort of pace and this is obviously going to be the standard with which to compare builds if that’s what other builds are doing. It takes more than like 6 seconds for some mobs to even attack your minions one time if running thorns variant and there’s no guarantee they kill themself on the first hit, and if you’re playing a pure minion DPS build, it’s equally low DPS and frustrating, you end up feeling compelled to throw tendrils and spam raise skeleton and do all those spamming that you told yourself not to, just to speed it up because it’s so slow, and even if you do spam to optimize your output, it’s still like the slowest tier of clearspeed in the game in the back with the worse sorc builds etc.
I wouldn’t say that minions are worse or better in any way. That being said I just soloed the tier 4 capstone dungeon at lvl 61 with a pure minion build and no resource generator.
The issue I have with necro is Necrotic Carpace not working at all period since the 1.1 update.
I’ll admit I haven’t done much to test it other than a quick torment helltide session, but my minion build does seem to be doing more damage and have about the same level of survivability.
The bigger problems are that their AI is still garbage and now my own slow moving necro is way more squishy.
I find that tendrils with a bone golem for taunt helps with crap AI and being squishy. Thats for my build anyway. Its a shadow blight build with cold blizzard skeleton mages. May not hit like a truck yet but great survivability.
This is very true early in the progression. It is really slow. Everything is slow and it is very hard. But when we get the Ring of Mendeln, everything changes. We start coping up. We get the Mendeln ring around NM25 to NM32. And from there, we ramp up. We meet Bone Spears players at NM70+. Few has beaten NM100 and even have an Uber Lilith kill as a Summoner.
I am not saying you do Uniqueless build. I put the video just to tell everyone that it could be done but I dont recommend it. I want to emphasize that Summoner’s build revolve around: Flesh Eater and Fueled By Death with Blights. After these, you could either go with Kalan’s Edict with Hellbent Commander and that Solo aspect or go with Shadowblight with Offensive Decay Aspect using Blight Corpse Explosion with 180% Damage increase buff which is up very fast and up all the time. I went for the Darkness Offensive Decay Aspect. It is really super slow up until the RIng of Mendeln. But I was able to handle easily mobs 5 to 8 levels above me. And the best thing is you dont need high NM to get the goodies. I got my Mendeln ring on NM25 and the other Mendeln on Helltide. I got both on the same day. And it propelled me to NM50 from NM25 in no time. And still on progression. I am just a Casual player and I just play at my own slow pace.
The Uniqueless build and RIng of Mendeln build is very different but the principle of getting Minion DPS to go up is the same. But the Ring of Mendeln Summoners are Offensive players. We are Elite Mobs Hunters. We always do the first move. We dont wait for those Fire Elemental Elites to kill us. We go straight hit them before they make the first move. The gameplay is easy… Round them up all and pull them together all on Bone Prison and Nuke. Then Spam Decrep to reduce cooldown then repeat and nuke. It’s like Nuke-Dance-Nuke-Dance-Nuke-Dance.
And the best thing with Summoners is we feel we are indeed Summoners not a Glass Cannon Sorcerer wannabe. We cant compete with Bone Spear meta as we are not on meta but we are viable to reach level 100. Our speed kills is decently fast when we have the Ring of Mendeln. Just like Bone Spear build, they are nothing until the Unique Helm.
You don’t get it. We don’t want minions to only be viable if we completely ignore all the paragon and glyphs like warrior, mage, and golem. Or choosing willfully to not pick up summoning damage on gear. I’m ok with ring being an upgrade I just want it to scale with the minions damage. The idea that we are somehow better off as a build so long as we skip over everything but defensive stats for the army, so we can pick up multipliers to boost ring instead is trash.
Also, just because we can doesn’t mean it is the way we want it to work. And asking for changes that make sense or fulfill the theme and intention that was obviously placed on the class in the first place makes sense. I honestly do not care if it’s possible like that’s nice sure. I want it to be balanced for someone who isn’t keeping up with every little change on the forums, maxroll, icy veins, etc.
When a casual or new player picks up Necro, do you think they should have to research how the build should function for it to work efficiently? Or do you think Blizzard in all their wisdom should just make the logical choice and have it synergize as is? Let’s say I never go on YouTube or look up ring of mendeln. What in game information would tell me to ditch my summoning boards over multipliers to make my build more viable. Where does it tell me in game that my army can not proc the ring which simply says lucky hit. Where am I told to take bone prison or bone spear as a mandatory include once I have it to even enable it? That is my point. How many casual players are getting taken for their lunch money over this dumb interaction.
That is my point. And it is the one I have been trying desperately to get across to blizzard. It doesn’t make any ducking sense. And it is ruining the game for tons of players who don’t care enough or are too casual to care. Who will pick up the build and drop it for something else that actually works logically. So stop saying oh but it can and realize it makes no god dang sense.
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I have an older video because i was sure someone was going to say this to me at some point. It’s 20 minutes long from when I was lvl 83. You let me know where I can upload a 20 minute video and ill send it to you. Youtube limits to 15 minute videos. If you want ill cut the first 5 or last 5 minutes off, whatever makes you happy.
I don’t think anyone has thought that minions are as powerful as bone spear, and that’s the only other build that reliably clears higher content that people talk about. It has also been nerfed very hard this patch.
I won’t argue with anyone that minions don’t need love and increases to damage, they definitely do. A bone spear build pre-patch could do the same content and higher in probably 10 minutes.
However, minion builds weren’t substantially nerfed this patch while a lot of other builds were, id like to see how things shake out in season 1, id argue its probably a lot closer to what other builds do now.
I got destroyed too (on Torment) when I just randomly made a build from every aspect without having synergy on each of them. I was really struggling. I thought I could just wing it.
I got disappointed and garbaged all the Summoner build I saw from websites as 90% of them are really garbage. I would make my own build for myself.
I started reading all my skills, all the aspects, all the legendary aspects, the starting boards, the glyphs, etc. And I came up with something. I build a Flesh Eater, Fueled By Death, Blighted Aspect, Aspect of Decay build with Blights with my minions. And finally, I was able to handle Torment. I just want to do Helltide on it and some beginner Ancestral NM21s so that I could get more Ancestrals. And I was able to survive and thrive on it. I can kill everything on Torment World even Helltide Assassins. I just dont compare myself to meta Bone Spear but I am progressing… not stucked, not dying over and over.
Somewhere when I was doing NM25 to NM32, that’s when my Mendeln ring dropped. It’s a Life changer. I continued the build I was doing… same minion concept but just add the Ring. There were many iterations of Summoner build that I did until I became a Mendeln-BlackRiver-Temerity Summoner. But everything is all about the in-game minion mechanics: Flesh Eater + Fueled By Death and Aspects that Buffs Minions. That’s it. Unlike you, you are looking for something inexistent to the game. Good luck to you.
If ever I would complain to Blizzard, I would be specific. I would just say… I need more buff on Flesh Eater or Fueled By Death or ask to have Kalan’s Edict even if I get damaged. Unlike you, when you ask for buffs, Blizzard has no clue which of the Minion stuffs you are referring. If they did look at your build and see that you are not using the minion build correctly, they would just regard you as someone who has no clue to the Minion build which is true. Blizzard cant fix those who dont know how to play the game.
Right, because they already sucked.
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yeah but everything sucks now. So by comparative standards they got a buff.
Mendeln’s has cleared T100 and lilith, not minions. The minions just delivered the procs. Assuming they weren’t just standing around… And that still requires a perfectly optimized build and many failed attempts and a lot more time than bone spear with non-optimized gear. And I’m betting they are having significantly more trouble after the patch. Bye, troll.
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So that’s your defense of Blizzard? Minion necros sucked before, now we suck even more, but OP builds got hit harder, but are still much better than minions necro, so Blizzard is God…
Ring of Mendeln:
While you have 7 or more Minions you gain: Lucky Hit: Up to a 10% chance to empower all of your Minions, causing the next attack from each to explode (XX) Physical damage.
The total damage from Mendeln Proc = Base Minion Damage x Dam Multiplier 1 x Dam Multiplier 2 x Dam Multiplier 3 x Dam Multiplier 4, etc.
It so happened that the Best Million Damage from Mendeln would be highest if you use put your points on Dam Multipliers than on Base Minion Damage. These Dam Multipliers we are referring applies to both the Necro and the Minion. I agree if I use Control, Exploit, with default Deadraiser over Mage or Warrior glyph, I deal way more damage with Mendeln ring.
If you make a build that never buffs or multiply the damage of your minion. Let’s say full Bone Spear. Those Dam multipliers for the Spear wont apply to Mendeln Ring. Mendeln ring would proc to garbage numbers.
Wrong.
The damage doesnt depend on minion damage, it scales just with the necro damage modifiers which makes damage nodes for minions in the paragon board completely useless.
The better word is it scales better with Damage modifiers than from Minion Base damages. Those modifiers apply to both the Necro and MINION.
You know what i would like? My minions to not take 10 seconds to drop 4 random normal mobs just kicking around the dungeon in random areas. Nothing takes the enjoyment out of the game like having to stop, pause, wait, pause, move.
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Whether +minion dmg is applied or not doesn’t matter. The proc gets 100% of your +dmg. You are better off putting points in +dmg. If you take all of the +dmg, you don’t have points for +minion. Before I got Mendeln, I had all of the Cult Leader +minion dmg. Did a few nm after I got it with that spec, then moved those points to +dmg. It was a very noticeable difference.
There’ also another problem.
At first, only the Reaper’s special attack can reduce cooldown by Abhorrent Decreptify.
After the 1.04 patch (2023.07.07), Reaper’s normal attack & special attack and Defender’s normal attack can reduce the cooldown.
Then, why the Skirmisher and Mages cannot reduce the cooldown???
Becoz the damage mod is both for you and your minion. You just neglect the minion becoz you just want to promote that Minion’s suck when in fact, they are the ones did the proc. The mod that you multiplied … the minions got it too. And you conclude that minions didnt do anything.